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America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

theatlantic.com

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Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#51

Post by hnaccy »

ashleyn wrote: post #13
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would immigrants move to where they're not wanted? Also, how is the desire to maintain a common identity in your small town racist? Many of our country's rural trends are a pushback against multiculturalism, which pushes the idea that there is no right or wrong way to live as long as you don't hurt other people. Common languages, religions, norms, customs, and beliefs simply don't matter. But how can a sense of c…

For decades, America has embraced a civic nationalism over a European-style ethnic nationalism. This is that certain notions of freedom and responsibility, not blood and soil, were the real ties that bind. A sense of community can transcend religion and race, and this is what we should strive for.

It's concerning then that a significant portion of America seems to have given up on those notions of freedom and responsibility.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#52

Post by NLips »

mieseratte wrote: post #47
maxerickson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't though. Williamson wasn't fired because the Atlantic readers hate white conservative opinion writers, he was fired because Atlantic readers aren't very interested in his particular views.

Which is a textbook definition of bigotry. They're intolerant of, thus do not want to read, his views.

Uninterested != intolerant

You can scream your opinion on topic X all day long, but no one has to listen. That doesn't make them intolerant.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#53

Post by strictnein »

maxerickson wrote: post #39
brandonmenc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for using the correct definition of "bigotry." The general population seems to confuse "bigot" only with "racist" or "sexist," for some reason.

They didn't though. Williamson wasn't fired because the Atlantic readers hate white conservative opinion writers, he was fired because Atlantic readers aren't very interested in his particular views.

What you're saying would make sense if he was there for three years, as opposed to, what, three days?

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#54

Post by ModernMech »

throwaway21333 wrote: post #43
bilbo0s wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...So when you live in these places and you see hatred for people like you, how are you supposed to be optimistic and excited about the prospects for your children and grandchildren?..." Yeah... but that's been going on forever. You see that with Muslims recently. We've seen that with hispanics. Further back, of course, we've been seeing it with blacks and native americans for a long time. That will ALWAYS happen. T…

How would eliminating the tribalism subroutine benefit the species? Is a homogeneous global population the most resilient?

Society and civilization is basically what comes out of setting aside tribalism. Tribalism doesn't mean heterogeneity, it means accepting people outside of your tribe as a potential valuable to you, instead of treating them as default dangerous.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#55

Post by bluthru »

pknight wrote: post #27
bluthru wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Decades" is a short amount of time and "embraced" obviously varies wildly. When the Immigration Act of 1965 was passed it was promised that "the ethnic makeup will not be upset". The American people never voted to be demographically displaced. (Why would they?) >A sense of community can transcend religion and race It can, but you're swimming against nature. Do you think the Japanese people would be happier if Japan…

> Do you think the Japanese people would be happier if Japan was minority Japanese? The more interesting question is why are the Japanese so miserable, 53 other countries rank over Japan despite features that some say should promote happiness. You might even say that the hypothesis that social cohesion must be upheld by deterring ethnic influences in the pursuit of happier communities can't find a worse example in Ja…

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/16/these-are-the-top-10-happies...

White countries with low diversity.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#56

Post by mieseratte »

NLips wrote: post #52
mieseratte wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is a textbook definition of bigotry. They're intolerant of, thus do not want to read, his views.

Uninterested != intolerant You can scream your opinion on topic X all day long, but no one has to listen. That doesn't make them intolerant.

They're not interested because they want an echo-chamber. This is just intolerance, aka bigotry, with extra steps.

It wasn't as if the man's writings were just panned. It was a typical social justice morality crusade.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#57

Post by virtuexru »

exelius wrote: post #38

I agree with this sentiment, with some caveats. I think Americans are totally done with identity politics based on race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc. We’ve had those arguments and the battle lines were drawn, but at the end of the day we all just live our lives. There seems to have developed somewhat of a “gentleman’s agreement” in most public spaces (explicitly political forums like protests notwithstanding) al…

> I think Americans are totally done with identity politics based on race, gender, religion, sexuality, etc.

As someone who's living in New York I'd have to say you couldn't be further from the truth. But then again I guess it depends what part of the country you are in.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#58

Post by montyf »

humanrebar wrote: post #28
bilbo0s wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...So when you live in these places and you see hatred for people like you, how are you supposed to be optimistic and excited about the prospects for your children and grandchildren?..." Yeah... but that's been going on forever. You see that with Muslims recently. We've seen that with hispanics. Further back, of course, we've been seeing it with blacks and native americans for a long time. That will ALWAYS happen. T…

> Because I'm not entirely certain that we can eliminate tribalism. It's fair to say tribalism has always been around. And from that perspective, the current tribalism, including left-wing identity politics, is extremely reactionary. A few things are, if not new, at least notable in this case: * These people aren't historically outsiders, they're "heartland" Americans. * The cultural narrative hasn't caught up to the…

You're absolutely right, but HN users don't realize that most of America exists outside of their ideological bubble.

> For example, if child of meth heads grows up to be president, he's yet another privileged white president, not an outsider who overcame adversity.

It's racism and nothing else. Thing is, it's OK to be racist nowadays, as long as you're a liberal.

Edit: to the guy quoting the dictionary below me, this is racism in a really obvious way. It is "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race" and it's not okay just because you don't explicitly declare your race superior.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#59

Post by maxerickson »

strictnein wrote: post #53
maxerickson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't though. Williamson wasn't fired because the Atlantic readers hate white conservative opinion writers, he was fired because Atlantic readers aren't very interested in his particular views.

What you're saying would make sense if he was there for three years, as opposed to, what, three days?

It's still not really "intolerant" to choose not to elevate a particular viewpoint.

People saying Williamson shouldn't be allowed to publish anything anywhere are obviously being intolerant. People saying they'd rather not subscribe to a publication that pays him to expound on vile views? Meh.

Re: America is moving toward becoming a better version of itself

#60

Post by virtuexru »

bluthru wrote: post #19
ashleyn wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For decades, America has embraced a civic nationalism over a European-style ethnic nationalism. This is that certain notions of freedom and responsibility, not blood and soil, were the real ties that bind. A sense of community can transcend religion and race, and this is what we should strive for.

"Decades" is a short amount of time and "embraced" obviously varies wildly. When the Immigration Act of 1965 was passed it was promised that "the ethnic makeup will not be upset". The American people never voted to be demographically displaced. (Why would they?) >A sense of community can transcend religion and race It can, but you're swimming against nature. Do you think the Japanese people would be happier if Japan…

Not sure why you are being downvoted. Great post. Bravo.
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