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Startup School Beijing

conference.startupschool.org

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Re: Startup School Beijing

#81

Post by freeone3000 »

dis-sys wrote: post #67
api wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is "whataboutism." America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger than what's found in China. You see some of the same corruption and autocratic tendencies on both sides of the Pacific but there is a substantial difference in degree and pervasiveness. We are not the best in the world (several EU countries are better) but claim…

> America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger than what's found in China. individual liberty such as those mass shootings protected by the constitution? if you do believe there is real democracy in your country, maybe you can talk to your democratically elected local representatives and make some _real changes_ in that aspect first? tal…

A lot of people believe that private ownership of guns is an important individual right - a majority in some areas. This is democracy, even when it produces outcomes I disagree with.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#82

Post by [deleted] »

rorykoehler wrote: post #79
fermienrico wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how Chelsea Manning is a more appropriate example. GP is literally comparing EXACT same thing. Protest against the president at a popular location in each country. I fail to see how this is an unfair comparison.

I think you misread it. >Go to Tiananmen Square and hold up a poster-sized picture from the 1989 massacre.

[deleted]

Re: Startup School Beijing

#83

Post by erikb »

forkerenok wrote: post #30
erikb wrote: post #28

This will fail so much. If you ever had anything to do with China you know there's no path in. Especially under Xi. Even in the old lang sine, when China was (more) open to the West it was still hard. Think about getting serious stuff stolen, threatened by people with sticks etc. Then you sue someone and the judge simply decides in favor of the Chinese party, no matter what they did. The only option I can see is if y…

I would assume YC has plenty of "wives" and "husbands" (read network connections) in China to vouch for them in front of CCP leaders. Edit: Besides, regardless of connections, I think, the deal where YC provides easy U.S. market entry for Chinese startups for a share in the company is pretty attractive to both sides.

Yes, that's what they think if they offer that. And my additional point was that what westerners consider "network connections" you can't have with Chinese people if you are not of Chinese heritage nor married to a Chinese wife. Even if you are a woman and married to a Chinese husband it might not be enough, because he won't listen to you in business related issues. Also hiring Chinese consultants to take care of the relationship won't work, because when the fighting starts they will side at least secretly with the Chinese other party.

Also one needs to consider that culture is not just weird behavior. Through the back and forth of each appropriate reaction a Chinese person can achieve something with other Chinese people, despite him being also very frustrated with how the Chinese culture works. Because you don't know the intuitive right reaction you cannot get to that point where you can finally get some honest/valuable response. It can't be learned from a book. You need to grow up with this, because even the Chinese people don't really understand why it works.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#84

Post by auganov »

logicallee wrote: post #78
auganov wrote: post #74

To people debating whether China are the good guys or not - hundreds of thousands Falun Dafa practicioners are locked up in Chinese concentration camps. Thousands have died of torture. Many more are suffering it everyday. China is ruled by a cruel evil regime. No question about it. You won't hear people involved with China talk about it. You won't be allowed into China if you do.

>You won't be allowed into China if you do. My understanding is that you have to just check your free speech at the door. For example my immpression is that specifically you, auganov, even if this profile is under your real name, would be allowed into China without any issue. (Despite what you've just written.) The standard I've heard said is that "you wouldn't be able to stand in Tiananman square with a 'Free Tibet'…

False. Examples: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42053790 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/australian-cri...

Be notable or persistent enough and it'll get you banned.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#85

Post by contingencies »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #58

How does this work since foreigners are still not allowed to have equity in Chinese startups? Is YC getting an exemption from the government, or are they holding it in a Chinese incorporated company?

This is not my experience, owning one and having owned another. Foreigners can own outright or have a stake in multiple types of organizations, either directly or indirectly, though not all (certain protected sensitive industries such as media, finance, etc.). I suppose this is perhaps a misconception based upon some kind of isolated incidence in which a domestic Chinese registered company had issues writing a foreign investor as a direct shareholder. I am certain this can be done but wouldn't be surprised if it may require alteration of the registration category of the company or the reformation of a new entity owing to the ancient (but improving!) corporate registration system which was geared toward early large foreign industrial investments which came with substantial government shepherding. I seriously doubt the assumed case that caused this misconception is some kind of conniving attempt at ineffective protectionism - far more likely just the wee end of inertia stemming from old-school socialist bureaucracy.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#86

Post by darepublic »

api wrote: post #37
throw2016 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is jingoism masquerading as concern for autocracy. If people really cared about things like surveillance or dystopias in any serious way they would be on the streets about the extensively documented activities of the NSA, rubber stamp courts, secret orders, searching through personal effects at borders and campaigning for Snowden and other whistle blowers to be brought back with honors. But on the ground these l…

I think this is "whataboutism." America's respect for individual liberty and the rule of law has eroded over the years, but it is still considerably stronger than what's found in China. You see some of the same corruption and autocratic tendencies on both sides of the Pacific but there is a substantial difference in degree and pervasiveness. We are not the best in the world (several EU countries are better) but claim…

Pointing out that America is just as bad would be a fair point (not whataboutism) because YC does so much business in America. So criticizing YC for dealing with a government just like America but is not America is not an invalid point. However I agree with others that China's tyranny is on a different level.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#87

Post by neolefty »

gaius wrote: post #49

How does this square with https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16918480 ?

BTW, that's a link to a discussion of the NYTimes article "Wanted at Chinese Startups: Attractive Women to Ease Coders’ Stress".

Likewise, isn't Hollywood the place with Harvey Weinstein? Must be purely evil.

No, China is big and intellectually diverse. Many young idealists who deserve to be catalyzed. Source: Lived there 2011-2016.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#88

Post by seanmcdirmid »

contingencies wrote: post #85
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #58

How does this work since foreigners are still not allowed to have equity in Chinese startups? Is YC getting an exemption from the government, or are they holding it in a Chinese incorporated company?

This is not my experience, owning one and having owned another. Foreigners can own outright or have a stake in multiple types of organizations, either directly or indirectly, though not all (certain protected sensitive industries such as media, finance, etc.). I suppose this is perhaps a misconception based upon some kind of isolated incidence in which a domestic Chinese registered company had issues writing a foreig…

This is simply not true. Many foreigners have been scammed by this, working for a Chinese startup on the promise of equity, and then being eventually told it is impossible because the government won’t allow it. See: https://www.chinalawblog.com/2016/09/the-china-stock-option-....

If you are a foreigner working for a domestic startup, you simply aren’t allowed to have equity. If the company is already listed or is a foreign company, then no problem, otherwise it simply isn’t allowed.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#89

Post by neolefty »

b6 wrote: post #11

I'm not optimistic about this at all. The same metrics for success just don't apply in China. All the elements necessary for success in the US could be there, but in China the startup may get red-taped and legislated out of existence in favor of a basically identical entity with better connections to the Satanic squid in charge of the country. I predict a rapid demise for this project, sorry to say. Talented Chinese…

Having spent 5 years there, I have to say it's not a uniform hellscape, to say the least.

There are millions of potential Chinese entrepreneurs, idealistic and talented, who deserve to have their efforts catalyzed. That's the way forward. If you want a new generation of leaders and a more egalitarian culture, you are not alone, and I'm super happy to see YC decide to help build it.

Re: Startup School Beijing

#90

Post by logicallee »

auganov wrote: post #84
logicallee wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You won't be allowed into China if you do. My understanding is that you have to just check your free speech at the door. For example my immpression is that specifically you, auganov, even if this profile is under your real name, would be allowed into China without any issue. (Despite what you've just written.) The standard I've heard said is that "you wouldn't be able to stand in Tiananman square with a 'Free Tibet'…

False. Examples: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42053790 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/australian-cri... Be notable or persistent enough and it'll get you banned.

Both of the articles references say "You should know"

The Katy Perry article says there was no official reason given or confirmation but:

>But the Global Times, a state-run tabloid, chimed in, saying that if it was true "they had brought it on themselves".

It further references that Katy Perry wore a flower dress, an Anti-China symbol, while giving a concert in Taiwan, and that she "draped Taiwan's flag at the concert. It caused a backlash in China, with many accusing her of supporting Taiwanese independence."

This kind of counts as activist activity and most importantly it did not happen abroad, but in China or Taiwan.

The second article says:

>“I asked them, ‘What’s the reason?’,” Hugh said. “Their answer was pretty diplomatic, they said, ‘You should know’.”

and it says:

>Hugh is the head of the Australian Values Alliance, a loose coalition of Chinese-Australians who promote “democracy and freedom” and are critical of Beijing’s policies. Last week he was prominently involved in the Sydney book launch of Prof Clive Hamilton’s book Silent Invasion: China’s Influence in Australia, which details covert, state-sponsored or co-ordinated operations to exert Chinese Communist party influence in Australia.

You might have missed an edit I made to my reply to you within a couple of minutes of when I wrote it, in which I remembered that people engaged in public or journalistic type things are held to a different standard (more likely to be refused entry.)

So as far as I personally am concerned, I think if I did something with a lot of visibility I would have to watch what I say and do, especially if I was literally doing something that would be considered activism.

Do you think I should edit my original reply to you to remove the sentence "But that doesn't mean you can't have ever touched a gun, cocaine, or heroin in your life, it's not retroactive. To prove my case, let me say that Taiwan is an independent country, Tibet doesn't belong to China, and, hmmmm what else don't they like. Oh Xi is a dictator for wanting to be President for life."? Will this off-hand remark which has next to no audience, and made outside of China, cause me to be refused a visa in the future for no real reason?

I am talking about a practical level here. I've gotten feedback from a lot of people since obviously this is a different standard than I'm used to living in the free world.

I'd remove the part of my comment I just quoted if it'll get me banned from entering China. (I don't think it would.) What do you think?

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