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Linus Torvalds became US citizen

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Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#141

Post by DougBTX »

logic wrote: post #131
eru wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be some upside to renounce a citizenship to do with avoiding extradition. But unless you plan to get involved in criminal investigations, it's probably not worth it. If America would get a draft again, could a dual citizen be drafted?

Yes; as far as the U.S. is concerned, you're a citizen, with the same rights and responsibilities as any other. If there's a draft, you'll be called upon. If that were to happen, there would definitely be an upside to renunciation. ;-)

Just watch out for when both sides call a draft.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#142

Post by duke_sam »

kiuyhjk wrote: post #133
duke_sam wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those companies have pretty large complexes in Ireland. Intel has 2 fabs, Google has a large (for Dublin) office complex as their HQ and MS has their own campus. As far as tax havens go we actually had quite a lot of people from those companies employed, it wasn't just your standard shell company running out of a solicitors office.

Google makes £1.25 billion/year in the UK but doesn't pay any tax because it's HQ is in Ireland, in Australia it makes a loss on $1Bn sales because it's all charged back to Dublin. MSFT, Dell and HP both apparently lose money on all sales in Europe except those in Ireland.

I'm not arguing that American companies aren't taking advantage of this. All I'm saying is that they aren't just shell companies setup in Ireland. There are Eastern European countries with lower corporate tax rates, if the only reason they were in Ireland was the tax break they would have upped and left year ago. The only reason they are still there is because they actually have infrastructure and campuses.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#143

Post by mike-cardwell »

gojomo wrote: post #83
mike-cardwell wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly!

And to bring it all back around: that an exceptional person who could easily choose to live in comfort in dozens of countries, chooses to live in the USA, is a legitimate source of pride for the locals. The number one product of a legal jurisdiction is providing a desirable place to live. The political system is designed to make citizens feel like the local jurisdiction is 'their' product. When your target market emb…

It must be a cultural thing then. I can't personally imagine ever being proud of someone moving to the UK (where I live). I understand that Americans place a much higher value on patriotism than most of the developed World though.

It's bigger than that though. The whole concept of feeling proud about something to which you had no input seems very strange to me.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#144

Post by kijinbear »

DougBTX wrote: post #141
logic wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes; as far as the U.S. is concerned, you're a citizen, with the same rights and responsibilities as any other. If there's a draft, you'll be called upon. If that were to happen, there would definitely be an upside to renunciation. ;-)

Just watch out for when both sides call a draft.

And worse, go to war with each other. It happened back in 1812 you know...

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#145

Post by roel_v »

dctoedt wrote: post #139
roel_v wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. She could 'work in law' in the same way in New Jersey as she could in Greece - as a 'jurist' or 'company lawyer', but not initiate court proceeding. Being admitted to the bar in one Member State does not automatically mean admittance to the bar in another Member State, nor does it even mean that one is eligible to just take the bar exam in that other Member State (although this last part is under proceedings befo…

> one doesn't even need a law school degree to be able to take the bar exam in any US state Not quite: In a number of US states, a prerequisite to taking the bar exam is either graduation from an ABA-accredited law school, or a foreign law degree with additional training in a U.S. school. See Chart III at http://www.ncbex.org/fileadmin/mediafiles/downloads/Comp_Gui... and the supplemental remarks afterwards, also Cha…

I stand corrected, thank you.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#146

Post by philwelch »

philwelch wrote: post #120
alinajaf wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wasn't irony. THIS is irony (i.e. that the person who called out the other guy for not understanding irony, happens to not actually know the difference between irony and sarcasm himself) :P

Sarcasm is a subset of irony.

What? I didn't say anything outright wrong, though it's a subject of some controversy. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony#Verbal_irony_and_sarcasm

More specifically: Some psycholinguistic theorists (e.g., Gibbs, 2000) suggest that sarcasm ("Great idea!", "I hear they do fine work."), hyperbole ("That's the best idea I have heard in years!"), understatement ("Sure, what the hell, it's only cancer..."), rhetorical questions ("What, does your spirit have cancer?"), double entendre ("I'll bet if you do that, you'll be communing with spirits in no time...") and jocularity ("Get them to fix your bad back while you're at it.") should all be considered forms of verbal irony.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#147

Post by mike-cardwell »

philwelch wrote: post #122
ugh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had the last millennia to homogenize and it didn’t happen. The United States really are very much unlike Europe. That’s not to say it won’t happen but I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion.

Yeah, but it's been what, 60 years since they stopped trying to invade each other? I don't think it's a foregone conclusion either, but I think it's definitely the trend the EU is on.

A lot of the countries in Europe have strong independent governments that were established long before the USA existed. European countries have large complex systems of law that have taken thousands of years to develop and grow. We also have hundreds of millions of people. What was the original population of the USA?

How difficult would it be to wipe and rewrite the constitution of the USA today? Imagine something 100 times more difficult than that, and that is how difficult it would be to create anything resembling the USA in Europe.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#148

Post by jasonlotito »

_delirium wrote: post #126
kiuyhjk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but it's still a hassle not being a citizen - especially if you travel a lot. By contrast Canadian permanent residents are treated exactly the same as citizens - except you can't vote in federal elections. Although with the choices on offer that's probably a blessing !

That's not the case with my family, at least. My mom was a green-card holder for almost 40 years until she finally got her citizenship a few years ago, and there was never any real hassle. She eventually got her citizenship mostly to simplify retirement planning (if she and my dad, who's a U.S.-born citizen, had different citizenships, apparently things get complicated with things like pensions and survivorship). I g…

I think that's the kind of hassle he was referring to. =)

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#149

Post by ewjordan »

alinajaf wrote: post #105
philwelch wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before you ask, you've been downvoted for failing to grasp irony.

That wasn't irony. THIS is irony (i.e. that the person who called out the other guy for not understanding irony, happens to not actually know the difference between irony and sarcasm himself) :P

ewjordan's Law of Irony: in any Internet discussion of sufficient length where the word "irony" is used, someone will call out the poster for using it incorrectly. This is true whether or not the original usage was proper or not, and with high probability the original complaint will be followed up by a comment on the irony of the critic not understanding the definition of the word "irony". Bonus points are awarded based on how many levels this back and forth continues.

Alanis Morissette will be brought up in at least 50% of these cases, though the precise frequency depends inversely on the level of sophistication of the forum members.

Re: Linus Torvalds became US citizen

#150

Post by kiuyhjk »

_delirium wrote: post #126
kiuyhjk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but it's still a hassle not being a citizen - especially if you travel a lot. By contrast Canadian permanent residents are treated exactly the same as citizens - except you can't vote in federal elections. Although with the choices on offer that's probably a blessing !

That's not the case with my family, at least. My mom was a green-card holder for almost 40 years until she finally got her citizenship a few years ago, and there was never any real hassle. She eventually got her citizenship mostly to simplify retirement planning (if she and my dad, who's a U.S.-born citizen, had different citizenships, apparently things get complicated with things like pensions and survivorship). I g…

Never had a green card - but going in and out of the USA on a european country passport with an H1-B was always a hassle.

Especially one return from a conference where the minimum-wage-moron on passport control didn't understand the concept of visas (to be fair he had a limited understanding of the concept of passports or even other countries) and allowed me in for 24 hours which I spent queuing at LA's delightful immigration office downtown.

Still, well done to him for protecting the USA from another foreign Caltech physics prof.

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