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So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

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Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#101

Post by jlgaddis »

EE84M3i wrote: post #38

IPv4 address utilization is incredibly low. For example, consider 44.0.0.0/8 - it's sitting around almost entirely unallocated. UCSD Caida uses it for their network telescope (pretending to use it for amateur radio) and won't give it back. Just look at how dark it is: https://benjojo.co.uk/internet-2018.png (from https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbe... ) Discussion on r/amateurradio - https://…

They don't have to give it back, of course.

If anything, the first organization to have netblocks yanked out from under them should be the US DoD. As I mentioned a few days ago [0]:

> There are also large portions of the 13 /8s (218 million IPs!) assigned to the US Department of Defense [5] that you wouldn't need to scan since there are no routes to them at all: the 11.0.0.0/8, 22.0.0.0/8, 26.0.0.0/8, 28.0.0.0/8, 29.0.0.0/8, 30.0.0.0/8, and 33.0.0.0/8 networks are, for all intents and purposes, "missing" from the public Internet.

> Additionally, there are only four /24s in 21.0.0.0/8 that are reachable from the public Internet. Out of the 16,777,216 IP addresses that make up 7.0.0.0/8, only 255 are reachable (7.7.7.0/24) [6].

Just because we can't "see" them or get to them doesn't mean they aren't using them, though.

Yes, it sucks that we're out of IPv4 addresses but we've known this was coming for, what, 20+ years? The quicker we all get moved over to IPv6, the quicker we can forget about it.

(Disclosure: I've had a static IP from 44/8 for ~25 years and I don't wanna give it back.)

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16893669

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#102

Post by cuckcuckspruce »

markonen wrote: post #22
nsbq71 wrote: post #4

>we still have around nine million recovered IPv4 addresses in our available pool. Under current policy and growth rates, we expect these to last a further two years. And by then they will have recovered even more. The end of IPv4 is a lie, and how bad IPv6 is and the lack of good transitioning systems doesn't help.

IP addresses accumulate reputations as well as background noise traffic bound for them. While "plenty" of these recovered addresses exist, there is something to be said for being able to get allocations of unused addresses.

If the address is used you must refuse.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#103

Post by ceejayoz »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #97
ceejayoz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a network guy, but I thought IPv6 made subnetting mostly unnecessary? Certainly on an individual consumer level?

A subnet is simply a range of addresses assigned for a particular layer 2 network. Not having a subnet is equivalent to not having addresses ... that does not really make sense.

Well, obviously you need one... I'm asking about multiple.

IPv6 doesn't have broadcasting, and you've got 18 quintillion IPs in a /64, hence my question.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#104

Post by gsich »

EE84M3i wrote: post #38

IPv4 address utilization is incredibly low. For example, consider 44.0.0.0/8 - it's sitting around almost entirely unallocated. UCSD Caida uses it for their network telescope (pretending to use it for amateur radio) and won't give it back. Just look at how dark it is: https://benjojo.co.uk/internet-2018.png (from https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbe... ) Discussion on r/amateurradio - https://…

At least it's more colorful then 33/8.

Personally, I think the Amateur Radio guys deserve a /8.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#105

Post by freehunter »

jlgaddis wrote: post #101
EE84M3i wrote: post #38

IPv4 address utilization is incredibly low. For example, consider 44.0.0.0/8 - it's sitting around almost entirely unallocated. UCSD Caida uses it for their network telescope (pretending to use it for amateur radio) and won't give it back. Just look at how dark it is: https://benjojo.co.uk/internet-2018.png (from https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/scan-ping-the-internet-hilbe... ) Discussion on r/amateurradio - https://…

They don't have to give it back, of course. If anything, the first organization to have netblocks yanked out from under them should be the US DoD. As I mentioned a few days ago [0]: > There are also large portions of the 13 /8s (218 million IPs!) assigned to the US Department of Defense [5] that you wouldn't need to scan since there are no routes to them at all: the 11.0.0.0/8, 22.0.0.0/8, 26.0.0.0/8, 28.0.0.0/8, 29.…

Man I've worked with my fair share of quasi-governmental agencies who have a /8 or /16 to themselves and use it for their internal address space.

I wonder how many addresses we'd have if we could take back unused address space.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#106

Post by jjrh »

beobab wrote: post #34
space_fountain wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do have more and more people in the world. Things like NATing can help get around it to some extent, but at the end of the day there aren't enough addresses to give every human alive today even one IP address. That doesn't strike me as a problem that can be solved by buybacks.

Trouble is that NAT solved a huge chunk of the problem. The current setup is not quite painful enough for people to want to fix it. The good is the enemy of the great, as it were.

> Trouble is that NAT solved a huge chunk of the problem.

Well it solved the roof collapsing, but the problem is it makes innovation difficult and straight up impossible in some cases.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#107

Post by jlgaddis »

djrogers wrote: post #62

Is it just me, or does the excessive use of undefined acronyms make this a difficult read for everyone else too? At the very least, please annotate your first use of acronyms like LIR and RIR so us outsiders have some context.

The intended target audience of this article are people who already know what all of those acronyms mean.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#108

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

ceejayoz wrote: post #103
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A subnet is simply a range of addresses assigned for a particular layer 2 network. Not having a subnet is equivalent to not having addresses ... that does not really make sense.

Well, obviously you need one ... I'm asking about multiple. IPv6 doesn't have broadcasting, and you've got 18 quintillion IPs in a /64, hence my question.

Well, if you have multiple layer 2 networks, you need multiple subnets, and you should assign a /64 per layer 2 network for stateless autoconfiguration to work, so splitting a /64 into smaller pieces is not a good idea, therefore an ISP should give you at least a /56, better a /48, that you can subnet for any layer 2 networks that you might have.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#109

Post by briffle »

takeda wrote: post #64
nashashmi wrote: post #49

Can anyone offer an explanation why IPv6 still has not blanketed the world yet? I mean if client pings an IPv4 address, it should be automatically converted to an IPv6 version. So why isn't IPv4 instantly outdated?

People are lazy and will wait for absolutely the last moment: "why should I spend time configuring my network when I still can purchase IPv4?" This was especially bad because vendors and ISPs had the same attitude, so even when there was someone willing to do the work, those parties stayed in the way. I actually see great parallels about Python 2 vs 3. The changes between these versions aren't really big, and convert…

I was a charter business fiber customer for 5 years. (multiple sites in multiple states) I asked every few months, got relayed to the same web page sayings "its rollout is planned in Q4" (for 5 years it said that, never included the year) and gave instructions on how to setup the single 6RD server they had in St. Louis. They merged with a few other cable companies, who had working ipv6, but nobody could give me timelines. We had customers wanting to access our applications via IPV6. We actually had to setup a remote proxy on an IPv6 network to then proxy back over IPv4. I left that job a year ago, so perhaps Charter has had a huge change of heart, but I strongly doubt it.

Re: So Long Last /8 and Thanks For All the Allocations

#110

Post by jlgaddis »

citrin_ru wrote: post #98

Anybody know why 240.0.0.0/4 is not used? It currently blocked by many routers/firewalls but it was possible to start "unreserving" process long time ago and use this net by now.

Even if they started giving it out, it would be next to useless due to all the legacy network gear that wouldn't play with it.
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