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How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

nytimes.com

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Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#201

Post by rnosov »

hadlock wrote: post #190
rnosov wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that hot in your area that you have to run air conditioner for 3-4 hours after sunset? Typically solar output correlates really nicely with the need for air conditioning. Washing and drying could be done say on a weekend ( during daylight hours ). Many water heaters come with an integrated storage tank for hot water so they can actually be used as a form of energy storage. That leaves lights in your example and…

It's not uncommon for outside temperatures in Texas to stay above 80F (27C) until midnight during the summer months. The modern homes there are designed to stay sealed, rather than open windows for ventilation at night. Running AC every ~45 minutes until morning is considered the norm.

Hmm, here in Europe were I live 27C would be considered a rather pleasant temperature. Anyway, sealed houses are not only good for keeping the heat in but also to keep the heat out. If you cool your house sufficiently during the daylight hours that should prevent it from heating up too much even after you stop cooling it (after sunset).

But if you absolutely must use active cooling after sunset you might want to get something like Ice bear 20 ( https://www.ice-energy.com/technology/ - i'm not affiliated with them just an example) hopefully it should solve it once and for all.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#202

Post by xyzzyz »

boxcardavin wrote: post #136
dschuetz wrote: post #120

I'm sorry, stupid question, but exacly how much power do those big ones generate? 20 times more than what? This actually most crucial tidbit isn't even covered in that article, or am I blind?

The biggest ones produce over 5 megawatts at peak capacity, I think someone has built over 10 megawatts but I'm not sure. 5 megawatts is a pretty useless figure for most people to imagine, and I think imagining it in units of homes-powered isn't great either because we don't have a sense of the heat or kinetic energy equivalent because our homes are quiet machines. A 260 horsepower car (think new minivan) at full thr…

Your calculation is not very helpful either, and it’s not only because division error (10/0.2 is 50, not 20). More importantly, an average minivan most likely never reaches its full power over its lifetime. It would make more sense to consider its energy use as it cruises, which is probably something like 50-70 HP. So, one 10 MW turbine is really rather 200-250 minivans, not 20 — a whole order of magnitude.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#203

Post by QuotedForTruth »

coryfklein wrote: post #187
rnosov wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that hot in your area that you have to run air conditioner for 3-4 hours after sunset? Typically solar output correlates really nicely with the need for air conditioning. Washing and drying could be done say on a weekend ( during daylight hours ). Many water heaters come with an integrated storage tank for hot water so they can actually be used as a form of energy storage. That leaves lights in your example and…

The hottest time of day is 3:00 PM and, due to heat-lag, the hottest time of day _inside_ a house is a little bit after that. Since I set the thermostat higher while I'm gone during the day, this means the house can be roasting by the time I return and require 3-4 hours of AC for it to get more manageable. And no, our washing and drying can not be done on a weekend. We have 3 kids and if we waited for a weekend to do…

"Since I set the thermostat higher while I'm gone during the day"

Aren't you looking for a way to store excess solar power generated during the day? Use it to cool your house! If your house is at 68 when the sun goes down and power generation stops, you may very well be fine without AC until the morning.

Use the power when its generated and you don't need as big of a battery to store it for later use.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#204

Post by gehsty »

ThomPete wrote: post #193
gehsty wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please define doesn’t scale well? I work in this industry, wind farms have gone from For reference the new nuclear in the UK (Hinkley 3.2gw) is receiving a £93/mwh subsidy, offshore wind uk project Hornsea two (1.8gw)is going to get £72mwh, and the Netherlands projects are receiving a zero subsidy for ~750mw projects. It is not going to solve our energy crisis but there are virtually no negatives to building…

The amount of energy needed will increase even though we become better and better at optimizing the individual items power usage. In other words, wind and solar are linear solutions to exponential problems. I have nothing against wind or solar but the idea that wind and solar will be able to solve our energy problems is based on a political mandate, not on science or any realistic evaluation of the energy needs of th…

You need a mix, for now that will include solar, coal, nuclear and wind.

I think in the long run this will change to renewable sources + interconnected grids (it’s always sunny / windy / geothermal / waves) somewhere.

I’m generally pessimistic on fusion, but then it would cost me my job so I’m bound to be, but is always feels like it’s “50yrs away”

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#205

Post by knz »

rnosov wrote: post #201
hadlock wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not uncommon for outside temperatures in Texas to stay above 80F (27C) until midnight during the summer months. The modern homes there are designed to stay sealed, rather than open windows for ventilation at night. Running AC every ~45 minutes until morning is considered the norm.

Hmm, here in Europe were I live 27C would be considered a rather pleasant temperature. Anyway, sealed houses are not only good for keeping the heat in but also to keep the heat out. If you cool your house sufficiently during the daylight hours that should prevent it from heating up too much even after you stop cooling it (after sunset). But if you absolutely must use active cooling after sunset you might want to get…

> Hmm, here in Europe were I live 27C would be considered a rather pleasant temperature.

There are many factors that influence how tolerable the heat is - low humidity and the presence of a breeze can make a huge difference on how tolerable 27C is.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#206

Post by Retric »

IpV8 wrote: post #191
coryfklein wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you quote costs here? How much will it cost me to install a battery that lets me come home from work, turn on the air conditioner for 3-4 hours, run 2 loads through my washer and dryer (cause I have 3 kids), do a load of dishes, all while running the water heater, lights, etc? Does a single $4,000 power-wall do that? And if it is merely saving me the cost differential from electricity at noon and electricity at 6…

You're going to be closer to $10,000 for that kind of storage. Probably not economical for your use case unless you get good rebates and electricity is expensive where you live. Source: I build home battery backup systems for a living. The types of people buying batteries today live in places where arbitrage is an option (california, hawaii), or where the grid is frequently or always down (puerto rico)... or rich peo…

$10,000 is ~ 50kwh of battery power, that's vastly more than most people are using over a few hours.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#207

Post by Retric »

hadlock wrote: post #190
rnosov wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it that hot in your area that you have to run air conditioner for 3-4 hours after sunset? Typically solar output correlates really nicely with the need for air conditioning. Washing and drying could be done say on a weekend ( during daylight hours ). Many water heaters come with an integrated storage tank for hot water so they can actually be used as a form of energy storage. That leaves lights in your example and…

It's not uncommon for outside temperatures in Texas to stay above 80F (27C) until midnight during the summer months. The modern homes there are designed to stay sealed, rather than open windows for ventilation at night. Running AC every ~45 minutes until morning is considered the norm.

Without solar gain you still need less solar power even if the temperature is 80+. Further, you use exponentially more energy to cool as the temperature rises. So, 80f is significantly cheaper than 90f.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#208

Post by Retric »

coryfklein wrote: post #171
pkulak wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a surprisingly small battery to shift use a mere 4 hours. This is why we need market rates for power, for everyone. If I have a bunch of panels and my power is worthless at 2pm, that's fine. A small battery system will pay for itself quickly if that power is worth peak at 6pm. Or maybe I set my car to charge in the early afternoon? Maybe when I install my system, I put my panels facing West instead of south?

Can you quote costs here? How much will it cost me to install a battery that lets me come home from work, turn on the air conditioner for 3-4 hours, run 2 loads through my washer and dryer (cause I have 3 kids), do a load of dishes, all while running the water heater, lights, etc? Does a single $4,000 power-wall do that? And if it is merely saving me the cost differential from electricity at noon and electricity at 6…

Let's say you spend 10c/kwh and your electric bill is 100$/month. That's 33kwh / day. Let's assume you need 1/3 of that to cover the evening, and batteries cost 200$/kwh and last 10 years that's 2,200$ / 120month ~= 18$/month.

That's about the ballpark we are talking about though actual numbers will be different.

Re: How Windmills as Wide as Jumbo Jets Are Making Clean Energy Mainstream

#209

Post by cavanasm »

IAmEveryone wrote: post #104
cavanasm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad worked as a general counsel for a power company for a long time, and he told me they basically had a budget for how much they'd pay in violations of the Endangered Species Act related to bird deaths around their wind turbines.

You dad (or, more likely: you) is full of shit. Penalties don’t work like a tax on misbehavior. If you are constantly being fined, you would face the loss of your license to operate.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/22/duke-energy-bird-f...

There was foreknowledge on the company's side that it would be an issue, but not expedience in trying to resolve it (hence the notion of it being budgeted as a potential expense). It still took years for anything to happen over the issue. My dad wasn't directly involved in this case (they have many many lawyers), but it was something he was aware of enough to mention at the dinner table, especially after it started getting press coverage. Sort of an "Ugh, the company is in trouble again, why can't they just do the right thing" type of gripe.

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