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Be Good

paulgraham.com

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Re: Be Good

#61

Post by tlb »

ctkrohn wrote: post #17

This isn't a new idea at all; in fact it's as old as capitalism itself. Adam Smith was one of the first to recognize that capitalism helps align the self-interest of the entrepreneur (selfishness) with the general interest of others (charity): "It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. We address ourselves, not to t…

Smith is is saying that customers can depend on businesses providing value out of their own self interest (in order to make money.)

Graham is saying that as a business, you'll be most successful if you spend your energy trying to be good to your customers, rather than, say, trying to squeeze a little more money from them.

Smith: greed => good service => profit & happy customers

Graham: benevolence => wonderful service => happy customers & happy entrepreneurs & profit

Very different ideas.

Re: Be Good

#62

Post by vesterr »

9oliYQjP wrote: post #45
vesterr wrote: post #29

"And the very best hackers tend to be idealistic. They're not desperate for a job. They can work wherever they want." I've heard PG repeat this but I think it's fallacious. A lot of up-and-coming hackers can't pick and choose where to work except in the sense that any person can quit one job and apply for another one. They can't unilaterally get themselves into Google, for example. Established hackers also may have c…

I think PG's qualification of "very best" is important here. While he has restricted his assessment to programmers, that need not be the case. This is applicable to the very best in any profession. I don't consider myself to be in the category of very best hackers, but I am pretty good, and I have never worried about money. If you have a decent reputation there will always be somebody practically begging for you to t…

"If you have a decent reputation there will always be somebody practically begging for you to take their money to do some work for them."

That's not the same as being able to make money working on anything you want to work on. Of course you can make money working for someone else on their boring stuff, that's never been a question.

"I have interviewed about 20 programmers and only 1 blew me away. "

...so why was he out of a job? You see... even brilliant programmers don't always get to work for themselves or exactly where they want.

"This is applicable to the very best in any profession."

Not really. If you're the very best plumber you can fix Bill Gates's clogged toilet instead of the worst toilet in Scotland but you're still dealing with someone else's crap. =D

Re: Be Good

#63

Post by vesterr »

modoc wrote: post #44
vesterr wrote: post #29

"And the very best hackers tend to be idealistic. They're not desperate for a job. They can work wherever they want." I've heard PG repeat this but I think it's fallacious. A lot of up-and-coming hackers can't pick and choose where to work except in the sense that any person can quit one job and apply for another one. They can't unilaterally get themselves into Google, for example. Established hackers also may have c…

I'd argue that "the very best hackers" can pick and choose. "Up-and-coming" != "the very best". Maybe they'll get to be the some of the very best with some experience (work or project) under their belt, and at that point, if it's great code/work, they can absolutely get a job (almost) anywhere. I'm not sure what the rest of your points have to do with the PG quote exactly. Yes there are many factors around what job w…

You said: "Up-and-coming" != "the very best".

I'm not talking about up-and-coming skill-wise, I'm referring to level of fame or notoriety. What it really boils down to is whether you have enough money to just work on what interests you vs. what pays the bills.

"they can absolutely get a job (almost) anywhere."

Not really. There are far more jobs that require skills you don't have than skills you do.

Re: Be Good

#64

Post by [deleted] »

gruseom wrote: post #59
ecommercematt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any links or even just names of source material? I'm curious.

I wish I could answer this because I know I've run across it many times. Unfortunately, it's all blended into a vague impression. The "power of thought" authors of whom Napoleon Hill is the most famous certainly wrote about this, but so did more conventional writers. Anyway, the only specific thing that comes to mind is this useless, but hilarious example of an old IBM company song: OUR I. B. M. SALESMEN Tune: "Jingl…

[deleted]

Re: Be Good

#65

Post by aswanson »

mynameishere wrote: post #46
ecommercematt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any links or even just names of source material? I'm curious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations :-\ Could you, for example, grow a successful startup out of curing an unfashionable but deadly disease like malaria? Is it just me, or are pg's many draft-readers (and presumably fact-checkers) sleeping on the job here? I mean, c'mon, http://biz.yahoo.com/ic/510.html or, specifically, the company that more-or-less cured malaria (indirectly), until the efforts were q…

He did not argue that self-interest is always good; he merely argued against the view that self-interest is necessarily bad

I think the essay covers different ground than Mr. Smith by explicity stating it is in your self-interest to be good.

Re: Be Good

#66

Post by vesterr »

eb wrote: post #53
9oliYQjP wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think PG's qualification of "very best" is important here. While he has restricted his assessment to programmers, that need not be the case. This is applicable to the very best in any profession. I don't consider myself to be in the category of very best hackers, but I am pretty good, and I have never worried about money. If you have a decent reputation there will always be somebody practically begging for you to t…

Absolutely. I think the meaning of "hacker" is being diluted, I'm seeing people use it interchangeably with "programmer" on this site. When I think of great hackers, guys like Richard Stallman, Justin Frankel, or DHH come to mind. They're most certainly idealistic and only a couple of emails away from getting hired at Google.

Google is large enough it can take on people with almost any expertise.

But what if DHH wanted to get a job hacking the Linux kernel? Or Frankel wanted to get re-hired to AOL to work on the stuff they didn't like? And RMS doesn't even program anymore from what I understand.

What you're looking at is freedom due to financial independence. If you're financially independent, you don't have to work someplace you don't want to. It does not, however, mean you get to work wherever you DO want to.

Re: Be Good

#68

Post by jfrumar »

mhb wrote: post #19

I have no idea how Digi-Key is interacting with Octopart, but I have been buying parts from them for a long time and have nothing but good things to say about them. I like the company so much that I called to see if they were public so that I could buy stock; they're not. Although Octopart and its investors may be frustrated, it does Digi-Key a disservice to characterize it as "evil", not "good" or a company that isn…

Here's the deep-link to the part of Paul's speech where he discussed Octopart's battle of good vs evil:

http://omnisio.com/startupschool08/paul-graham-at-startup-sc...

(apologies for link dup)

Re: Be Good

#70

Post by epi0Bauqu »

aswanson wrote: post #31

I didn't want to start another company, so I didn't do it. But if someone had, they'd probably be quite rich now... You would be correct: http://www.news.com/Symantec-snaps-up-antispam-firm/2100-735...

I just want to point out that TurnTide was a Philly area company. Now that I live here, I have to plug it!
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