Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

411–420 of 439 posts

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#411

Post by chiefalchemist »

ergothus wrote: post #404
andrepd wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That will never happen because the lawmakers (i.e. wealthy elite, not democratically elected representatives) will never write laws to punish themselves. As long we live in a plutocracy we have zero hope of personal accountability for these sort of criminals. They will however pass brutal laws sentencing poor people to 35 years to life for possession, an other disgusting shit like that, but that's another story.

For clarity: you saying the source of the laws are wealthy "elites" that aren't in office? Meaning sone lobbyists and their patrons? Otherwise I'm confused as one can both be a selfish rich person AND a (american-style or noy) democratically elected official.

There are three groups.

- The Elites. In current parlance The 1%.

- Their enablers. They're the next 14%. We really don't have an acknowledgement of the existence of this group. Examples would be politicians, the majoriry of the media, etc.

- Everyone else. In 1984 this was The Proles.

The 1% v 99% lens is __all wrong__. Any discussion via that lens is all but pointless. It puts the 14% on the wrong side of the line.

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#412

Post by johnwheeler »

perseusprime11 wrote: post #408
johnwheeler wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they made 22 billion. You're probably reading their quarterly figures. source: https://www.nasdaq.com/symbol/wfc/financials?query=income-st... The scams in themselves were not profitable. For the cross-selling, they made an extra 100 million or so over the course of many years, I don't recall the figures I read.

This billion dollar fine is like a small change for them. Warren Buffet has a lot of exposure to this company and he has been influencing to let them go for a long time. Go figure!

Well, the shareholders have suffered outsize to the amount of damage to the victims in dollar terms by orders of magnitude. Probably 100-150 billion, conservatively, wasn’t realized.

Wells didn’t get in trouble during the financial crisis because they stuck to conventional banking instead of investment banking, like their peers. Their reputation was unmatched.

Since the crisis WFC has floated low double digits percentage wise around their market cap, while all its peers have doubled and tripled in market cap. Wells holders have missed the boat they waited ten years for, and probably will live in purgatory for another 4 or 5 years because of this mess.

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#413

Post by ergothus »

andrepd wrote: post #410
ergothus wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For clarity: you saying the source of the laws are wealthy "elites" that aren't in office? Meaning sone lobbyists and their patrons? Otherwise I'm confused as one can both be a selfish rich person AND a (american-style or noy) democratically elected official.

Ask any American this question: "Knowing that some people are responsible for _knowingly_ enriching themselves off of messing with the global economy leading to the global economic crisis of 2009 and, for example, hundreds of thousands to millions of excess deaths, would you support: (A) jail time and criminal accountability for all involved; or (B) a $700,000,000,000 bailout for, among other things, their next yacht…

I don't necessarily disagree - I was trying to establish what position the above poster had. (i.e. where they saying the decisions are being made by the officials in office or by the lobbyists or by the people hiring the lobbyists). None of those options deny a plutocracy, they just describe the means.

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#414

Post by astura »

golergka wrote: post #288
aphextron wrote: post #4

Something has happened to big banks along the way, where they no longer actually provide banking services to their customers. When I walk into a Wells Fargo branch now and sit down with a "banker" to take care of my accounts, it consists of sitting next to them while they call 1-800-WELLSFARGO for me and talk to a call center. There simply is no service anymore. I walked into my local branch to open up an IRA last we…

Is that a US thing? Here, all the customer-having banks have all their services available through the app, with very quick and helpful support through chat. I didn't even had to come to their office to open an account – they delivered the card together with the documents I had to sign. This industry has been radically transformed in the last few years, just as taxis. I thought it happened everywhere, especially in US…

How you described is how it works in the US too. I have opened up dozens of accounts at banks and it's always been that easy - never had to go to a branch or anything. Closing the account is usually very easy as well.

The reason I open and close so many accounts is churning the sign up bonuses.

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#415

Post by ergothus »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #411
ergothus wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For clarity: you saying the source of the laws are wealthy "elites" that aren't in office? Meaning sone lobbyists and their patrons? Otherwise I'm confused as one can both be a selfish rich person AND a (american-style or noy) democratically elected official.

There are three groups. - The Elites. In current parlance The 1%. - Their enablers. They're the next 14%. We really don't have an acknowledgement of the existence of this group. Examples would be politicians, the majoriry of the media, etc. - Everyone else. In 1984 this was The Proles. The 1% v 99% lens is __all wrong__. Any discussion via that lens is all but pointless. It puts the 14% on the wrong side of the line.

I really hate the use of "elites" in this context (you're using a common usage, I just don't like it).

To be elite is something to aspire to, to admire. To be truly elite includes concepts like benevolence, compassion, a larger awareness, and a long-term perspective. Being rich and/or educated alone isn't enough to be elite. Having power is definitely not part of being elite. A malevolent dictator is not an elite, they are just a powerful jerk.

This may be yelling to hold back the tide, but I think it's a bad idea to connect concepts of "good" with concepts of "asshole"

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#416

Post by mathgeek »

ergothus wrote: post #415
chiefalchemist wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three groups. - The Elites. In current parlance The 1%. - Their enablers. They're the next 14%. We really don't have an acknowledgement of the existence of this group. Examples would be politicians, the majoriry of the media, etc. - Everyone else. In 1984 this was The Proles. The 1% v 99% lens is __all wrong__. Any discussion via that lens is all but pointless. It puts the 14% on the wrong side of the line.

I really hate the use of "elites" in this context (you're using a common usage, I just don't like it). To be elite is something to aspire to, to admire. To be truly elite includes concepts like benevolence, compassion, a larger awareness, and a long-term perspective. Being rich and/or educated alone isn't enough to be elite. Having power is definitely not part of being elite. A malevolent dictator is not an elite, th…

Per Wikipedia:

"In political and sociological theory, the elite (French élite, from Latin eligere) are a small group of powerful people who hold a disproportionate amount of wealth, privilege, political power, or skill in a society."

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#418

Post by traviscj »

bedhead wrote: post #163

The government should've instead created a "fine" where they receive something like half of Wells Fargo's profits for the next ten years or so. Then cap executive compensation for the duration. Then force every board member to resign and have a regulator on the board. All for the next decade. These one-and-done fines that are paid by shareholders instead of management, even large ones, do nothing...do something with…

Your plan is to loop the government/regulators into the scam? What exactly is that incentivizing and how does that improve things for the average bank customer?

Re: Wells Fargo Hit with $1B in Fines

#419

Post by TheCoelacanth »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #344
openasocket wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I bet none of those people will be made whole I don't think this is about making them whole, it's just about fining them. I could be wrong, but I believe those victimized are still welcome to conduct a civil action against Wells Fargo.

You're wrong, in addition to the fine paid to the Feds, they also have to pay back the people they lied to along with interest.

They have to pay back the direct damages that they caused. They don't have to pay all of the damages resulting from the initial damage. If the money they took caused someone's car to be repossessed which caused them to lose their job, they don't have to pay for the lost income from the job.
Post reply on HN