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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#951
post #819
post #218

Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. e.g. "I've written large production programs in C." Ok, great, so then clearly this person knows C so there should be no need to dissect code or run them thru some linked list algorithm and see if they know how to use pointers correctly. Yet, we do. Ok, then what about open source contributions (if they have…

> Apart from getting a candidate to actually pump out some code, even trivially, we don't really have a way to de-facto verify that the person says they can do what they say they can do, short of a personal reference from someone, say, in the company already that knows and has worked with the person in the past. How do hospitals make sure that their surgeons can do surgery without having them do surgery? Do they have…

How do salespeople get interviewed? If one claims "I sold X million dollars worth of widgets more than the rest of the sales staff combined" I doubt you'd be able to confirm that easily.

Or what about non-technical middle management? Or HR?

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#952
post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.9% of candidates are not calling any shots in this employer’s market. Unless you are a celebrity, widely known as a top candidate, the employer is pretty much going to be dictating the interview process, the job description, the compensation, and the terms of employment. If this were an actual employee‘s market, the friend might not be so underemployed.

Software is 100% an employees market. Everyone wants coders, and can be hard to pin down good ones. I think software engineers either don't know what they are worth, or are uncomfortable negotiating comp.

"Software is 100% an employees market"

Not if you're geographically stuck and your skills are not in demand locally.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#953
post #17

I don't get it. The whole industry is complaining about not being able to hire developers, yet there seems to be some kind of competition who can come up with the most awkward hiring process. Requiring homework is a great way to deter the kind of people companies should be most interested in hiring: those who are not actively looking for a new job. I find this trend especially surprising considering that the U.S. has…

Very well summed up. Can confirm from the PoV of Berlin, Germany. I've been on an interviewing spree in January and February, totaling around 20 companies. There were maybe 3 or 4 with realistic and respectful hiring process. In the end I was left with just one company I actually liked.

Out of interest, what do you define as a 'realistic' hiring process?

I end up having to hire new devs for my offshore team in India every 4-6 months or so, and I just haven't found a good way to ensure candidates are any good.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#954

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially irritating considering I've dedicated tens of thousands of dollars and six years of my life completing a bachelor's and a master's degree in computer science where people whose entire job was to give me tests and evaluate me on them - maybe you'd like to take their word for it?

The problem is, there are people with those degrees who still can't even code fizzbuzz.

This is true, although I've no idea how prevalent it is, outside of my own sphere. Over the years I have had several devs in my offshore team in India who had not just a Bsc, but an Msc in computing - and they are literally incapable of performing even the most basic of tasks.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#955
post #218

Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. e.g. "I've written large production programs in C." Ok, great, so then clearly this person knows C so there should be no need to dissect code or run them thru some linked list algorithm and see if they know how to use pointers correctly. Yet, we do. Ok, then what about open source contributions (if they have…

How does it work for other jobs? How do you trust a painter or a plumber? How do you proove that his/her work was good and can do it?

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#956
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In Germany, we've basically got full employment in the IT sector." I can only confirm this. I used to be a freelancer and I got almost daily offers per email and phone. In order to stop I ask them a very hi price per hour ( 90-100 euros ) and to my very surprise yesterday the guy said, "that's fine, when do we start?". I backed up a bit and after some discussion he told me that they really could not find anyone. The…

You have a bit of the opposite problem in America. The market is flooded with applicants. The real issue is that many of them are woefully underqualified (see the fizzbuzz debate). It's a constant struggle to find a system that filters these people out without insulting the people you are trying to hire in the first place.

Well, the market is also flooded with 50-60K jobs in not so "hot" places but nobody applies.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#957
post #703

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's all about location. Web is the west coast while finance is the east coast.

Let me put it this way, people that came to BigCo's from FinCo's in my experience (I mean, trading/quant, not banking software) generally were 90th percentile+ performers at BigCo's. Don't know about the other direction.

It's the same in both directions. It's very visible in London where all companies are in the same locations and people transfer back and forth.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#958
post #840

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is stupid. They should always do the take home test first or after a short phone call. It's easier and saves everyone time.

> They should always do the take home test first or after a short phone call. Absolutely not. If most applicants need to do 4-8 hours worth of homework, they'll never have the time to review the results for every applicant. And making me do 4-8 hours of work without getting it reviewed thoroughly and getting personal feedback is not valuing my time. In the process above there already was a screen sharing coding test.…

The homework is 1 or 2 hours for the candidates and it only takes 10 minutes to review for the employer.

It's much lighter to schedule than a phone interview that requires a 1 hour time slot with everyone during working hours.

Ignore homework that takes 10 hours to do. It's abusive and it only selects desperate people with no family.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#959

Earlier quoted context omitted.

6 weeks is not standard in the US. I'm used to seeing 15 days of flexible pto/sick time and 6 holidays. Also, due to how the pto time would accumulate per each pay period, it can take many months to save up a whole week. I'm much happier with unlimited pto, as I now take 4-5 weeks spread out however I prefer.

> 6 weeks is not standard in the US. I know, I was trying to add some outside perspective. Where I'm from, 5 weeks is the legal minimum, and everyone has the legal right to get 4 consecutive weeks off in the summer. Consequently, since everyone does this, and expects this, companies adjust for it, and most importantly: No-one bitches about it. There's no masochist culture around not taking vacation. The problem with…

The number of holidays is always written in the contract. A company would never write that you have unlimited holidays, that's just plain stupid.

If it's written, it means that you have the minimum legal number of days in your jurisdiction and you are being screwed severely.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#960
post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you can get offshore work done for so little. Maybe that was possible up to a decade ago.

Sure, I was being conservative. Point being that $15/hr in the US is just basically a complete screw-job.

Point being that $15/h oversea is a complete screw job as well.
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