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In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

wired.co.uk

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Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#151

Post by tathougies »

adreamingsoul wrote: post #87
osrec wrote: post #82

India is an interesting place at the moment and the pressure to succeed is immense (often to the detriment of personal wellbeing). So much so that cheating schemes are commonly devised by large groups of people, and the ingenuity involved is often quite remarkable and creative. I've personally hired a number of people in my Delhi office from the local IIT, and these are a few things I've noticed amongst new grads: pa…

Sounds like they are copying the education system here in the USA.

India's education system is based off of the old UK educational system, which involves heavy standardized testing to gain entry to university. This is not knew. My grandparents grew up in british India, and my parents were born at the very end of it. They all sat through exams, and results were published publicly. It's just the way it was and still is.

If anything, America has slowly drifted towards the old British model. India though is not copying anything.

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#152

Post by tathougies »

Balgair wrote: post #132

One thing for Westerners to be aware of: In India, your exam scores (SAT-type thingys) are public, very public. They are usually published in a special edition of the local newspaper, in descending order. Meaning that the best kid comes first in a very public way. Couple this with the familial honor system/arranged marriages and I think you'll understand why pressure can be so intense. Even your love-life can be radi…

Yup.. My parents and aunts and uncles all tell us how great we have it. Their results were all published publicly. Interesting to know it still happens.

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#153

Post by vinni2 »

modi15 wrote: post #75
vinni2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing 'Indian' about it is that maybe only Indians think that its an 'Indian' thing. I am an Indian and I disagree with this. A large fraction (yes it is changing) of Indian society cares a lot about what relatives and neighbors would think about our lifestyle. There are so many taboos and restrictions inflicted upon family members simply because pressure from relatives and neighbors. My own family keeps q…

Thats because you are not a part of that society. Once you do become, you will realise that it comes with its own baggage.

What makes you think I am not?

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#154

Post by tathougies »

thewhitetulip wrote: post #150
sn41 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have studied in Indian and American universities. Many "top ranked" American universities have considerably milder requirements than what is required for passing IIT JEE. Ranking is based on a number of factors like funding and number of foreign faculty and students. It has nothing to do with the toughness of the entrance exams. In fact, if you rank institutes according to acceptance ratios, IITs will nearly be the…

Screw acceptance ratios Tell me how many googles, facebooks have been started by IIT grads. That number ought to count for something right

Sun Microsystems was started by an IIT grad (Vinod Khosla), and is responsible for the most popular software platform in the world. Without it, we wouldn't have a lot of the software we do today. I mean... I'm really not a fan of Java, but you'd be hard-pressed to deny its impact on computing.

Arguably, Sun Microsystems has had a much larger impact than facebook or google, which are mainly notable for their money making ability rather than their technical prowess. In comparison to Java, Google's attempt at programming languages (Go, for example) are exceptionally pathetic. Coming from someone who thinks Java is awfully engineered, that's really saying something.

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#155

Post by tathougies »

llarsson wrote: post #3

Notice how large percentage of the article was about a stupid fan, whose main feature is falling off the ceiling, rather than about the actual topic you clicked on the article for.

I mean American articles on mass murders and suicides tend to concentrate on gun control... what's the difference?

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#156

Post by tathougies »

truculation wrote: post #81

The ridiculous thing is that exams are irrational: they don't measure knowledge and ability, i.e. they don't measure what they purport to measure. It makes the societal scale suffering and death all the more meaningless and disturbing.

So I attempted to find some exam questions. I found the following page: http://cbseacademic.nic.in/SQP_CLASSXII_2017_18_final.html

I took a look at chemistry, english, and CS. I noticed that there were relatively few multiple choice questions compared to American exams. All exams had a written component, and the questions seem thought out. The english test in particular seemed to actually focus on real-life use cases for language (speech writing, ad drafting, and mannerisms), which is arguably more important than what American schools typically spend all their time on (the literary essay or persuasive essay).

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#157

Post by tathougies »

vinni2 wrote: post #27
modi15 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having said that, Indians solicit social approval as a report card that evaluates their life. Ask any psychologist and they will confirm that 'soliciting social approval as a report card to evaluate their life' is basically a human condition affection close to 100% of the species. The only thing 'Indian' about it is that maybe only Indians think that its an 'Indian' thing.

> The only thing 'Indian' about it is that maybe only Indians think that its an 'Indian' thing. I am an Indian and I disagree with this. A large fraction (yes it is changing) of Indian society cares a lot about what relatives and neighbors would think about our lifestyle. There are so many taboos and restrictions inflicted upon family members simply because pressure from relatives and neighbors. My own family keeps q…

I am a first-generation American. Growing up, I thought my parents insistence on 'what would your relatives say' was an Indian thing. However, when i married my wife, I realized it's really not. My wife is Canadian / American, and her parents pull the same crap. When we were engaged, we decided to rent an apartment together. We weren't even going to live together, just getting our names on the lease so that when we married, we could live together.

My mother-in-law (who's not even religious, just really into appearance) threw a huge fit, and pulled the same sort of shame stunts that my parents do.

I don't think this is Indian at all, except Indians are more introspective about it.

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#158

Post by indexerror »

tathougies wrote: post #156
truculation wrote: post #81

The ridiculous thing is that exams are irrational: they don't measure knowledge and ability, i.e. they don't measure what they purport to measure. It makes the societal scale suffering and death all the more meaningless and disturbing.

So I attempted to find some exam questions. I found the following page: http://cbseacademic.nic.in/SQP_CLASSXII_2017_18_final.html I took a look at chemistry, english, and CS. I noticed that there were relatively few multiple choice questions compared to American exams. All exams had a written component, and the questions seem thought out. The english test in particular seemed to actually focus on real-life use cases…

That paper is for school exams. Here is one of the two papers for IIT-JEE: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B14M4ID1Z9cQdWZSaWhSejd1Qlk...

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#159

Post by tathougies »

indexerror wrote: post #158
tathougies wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I attempted to find some exam questions. I found the following page: http://cbseacademic.nic.in/SQP_CLASSXII_2017_18_final.html I took a look at chemistry, english, and CS. I noticed that there were relatively few multiple choice questions compared to American exams. All exams had a written component, and the questions seem thought out. The english test in particular seemed to actually focus on real-life use cases…

That paper is for school exams. Here is one of the two papers for IIT-JEE: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B14M4ID1Z9cQdWZSaWhSejd1Qlk...

Thanks!

Re: In India, high-pressure exams are creating a student suicide crisis

#160

Post by vinni2 »

tathougies wrote: post #157
vinni2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only thing 'Indian' about it is that maybe only Indians think that its an 'Indian' thing. I am an Indian and I disagree with this. A large fraction (yes it is changing) of Indian society cares a lot about what relatives and neighbors would think about our lifestyle. There are so many taboos and restrictions inflicted upon family members simply because pressure from relatives and neighbors. My own family keeps q…

I am a first-generation American. Growing up, I thought my parents insistence on 'what would your relatives say' was an Indian thing. However, when i married my wife, I realized it's really not. My wife is Canadian / American, and her parents pull the same crap. When we were engaged, we decided to rent an apartment together. We weren't even going to live together, just getting our names on the lease so that when we m…

Ok I am not claiming that Western society is free from such things but fraction of people who care about such things is much higher in India.

As per your American/Canadian in-laws I cant comment much on that as I never lived / be part of those societies. I am married to a German and met his extended family including grandparents (now in their 90s) uncles and aunts on several occasions. Never once anyone had any such discussions (I speak German). Including when we were living together before getting married. There are so many things which no one cares about them here but in India they still do!

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