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Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

metropolitan.fi

121–130 of 147 posts

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#121
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whilst the apparent double counting doesn't seem fair, it also doesn't seem like a good idea for students who rely on government aid for their living costs to be speculating in risky exotic financial assets...

I understand where you are coming from, but let me add that this method of counting income applies to any investment income. So say you put money into an index fund, but something unexpected happens. If you need to liquidate your savings while being a student, the government will slap your fingers for trying to think long-term. Either way, I admit this only affects the poor -- if you are a bit better off you should b…

So say you put money into an index fund, but something unexpected happens. If you need to liquidate your savings while being a student, the government will slap your fingers for trying to think long-term.

Not really much of a concern, as you would have to be wealthy enough to have spare money to put into an index fund while retaining enough liquid assets to cover your living expenses.

By making yourself the sole owner of the company, you can get around all these problems, as juridically the LLC is a separate entity from you doing all the trading. This kind of setting is legal, but practically off limits for many.

Not even remotely true. SMLLCs are disregarded entities for tax purposes, so their transactions are taxed directly to their owners. And legally, the concept of veil-piercing applies to SMLLCs generally, and especially to undercapitalized SMLLCs (meaning any LLC without sufficient independent assets to pay off all liabilities against it).

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If one is a student who receives government aid, maybe one shouldn't be speculating in crypto-currencies.

You do realize that many students spend a portion of their income on beer and pizza even while getting government aid. I can't say crypto currency is any better, but whatever.

Pizza is food. People need food to survive. They don't need cryptocurrency...for anything.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#123
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is a legitimate investment. It's an entirely new asset class. If you think it's going away anytime soon you're delusional. 5 years ago you could buy 1 BTC for $100 USD. And at that point it wasn't even new. 1 year ago you could buy 1 ETH for about $50. The average person would struggle very hard to find any investment that goes 80X in 5 years, or 12X in one year. With Bitcoin and crypto, lots of regular people…

My collection of funny JPEGs is also a legitimate investment. It's an entirely new asset class, although not as overhyped as Bitcoin.

Right. Your collection of infinitely reproducible picture files is comparable to the first truly decentralized value transfer and storage system.

It's clear you have no intention of understanding what makes Bitcoin interesting or valuable.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that many students spend a portion of their income on beer and pizza even while getting government aid. I can't say crypto currency is any better, but whatever.

Pizza is food. People need food to survive. They don't need cryptocurrency...for anything.

cryptocurrency is money. People need money to survive.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#125

It sort of sounds like they're treating Bitcoin transactions like a non-EEA lottery. If you win, you pay your taxes, and if you lose you don't get to deduct the cost of your ticket. Honestly, this doesn't bother me.

Do you also get taxed if paid in bitcoin Why not just do a 10% wealth tax on all of a person's assets on top of their income tax

Wealth taxes ignore property rights. When something is yours, it should stay yours unless you agree to part with it.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#126
post #100
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between complaining about the tax level , or even the tax distribution , and what's going on here, which is completely insane. Paying taxes on a net loss is an absolutely crazy structure that no sane government should be imposing. It's so insane i'm skeptical it's even true, but if it is, he's absolutely right to be upset about it.

Why is it insane? Its like winning the power ball and then blowing it all on scratchers. You owe taxes on the win but can't necessarily deduct the losses. Which, tbh, seems perfectly fine to me.

As someone else pointed out upthread, gambling losses are tax deductible to the extent of your winnings: https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/jobs-and-career/can-you...

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#128
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a big difference between complaining about the tax level , or even the tax distribution , and what's going on here, which is completely insane. Paying taxes on a net loss is an absolutely crazy structure that no sane government should be imposing. It's so insane i'm skeptical it's even true, but if it is, he's absolutely right to be upset about it.

Your ethical argument is a bit weak. If society sees Bitcoin as a bad thing then there's no reason why they shouldn't slap a huge tax on any gross transaction, be it 34% or 340%. There are many ways to view cryptocurrencies in a bad light. It is a scheme that some claim seeks to subvert the fiat money systems that are controlled by these national tax authorities, so you can see why they would be upset. It is also, to…

> Finally, it is a money system mainly used by organized criminals to launder money.

Citation needed.

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#129
post #97
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you provide the billionaire with food stamps, but tax them at 10% of their net worth (which would reduce them to a mere millionaire in ≈65 years), I'm not sure whether anyone would complain about the food stamps.

I prefer the simpler policy, but strongly oppose the 10% net worth tax! > I'm not sure whether anyone would complain Maybe the billionaires would complain? Or is their sacrifice necessary for your greater good? I would also complain. It's unethical. And, we don't need yet another tax on the most value-bearing (and typically philanthropic) people in society, to be collected by the most violent organization in history,…

> And, we don't need yet another tax on the most value-bearing (and typically philanthropic) people in society

Presuming you're talking about value-bearing in terms of job creation, this statement is tautological. In a society where a handful of people own the vast majority of the wealth, of course they're also the most value-bearing and philanthropic: they're the only ones who can be!

Re: Finland tax authorities matching Bitcoin transactions and bank transfers

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The third example lays out a situation where the loss is not deductable even though it is a real loss. What worries me more is that this is an "instruction", but the tax authorities are not bound by instructions. And they are known to do as they want, even flouting European law (particularly when it is to do with car taxes, although not so much related to bitcoins.).

Someone actually did the leg work and disproved you. How about saying “I was wrong” instead of careening off into conspiracy theories and unrelated grievances?

Disproved what? The previous commenter explained cases 1 and 2, I just mentioned the example in case 3 where loss is not deductable (I'm Finnish so I do read that fluently).
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