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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#111

Post by untog »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #82
eigenvector wrote: post #29

RCS is an improvement to SMS but it does not address the core limitations: it is owned and controlled by carriers, so your ability to contact someone is entirely dependent on that user's carrier. It is tied to a single, physical device. WhatsApp shot to popularity because it was the opposite of SMS: an entirely over-the-top service that everyone could use, on any platform, without the consent, extra billing or buggy…

WhatsApp, nothing more than another internet messaging app that requires data, shot to popularity because it fooled users into thinking it was somehow an SMS client because it used phone number as account.

No, it shot to popularity because it functioned exactly like SMS messaging, except that messages were free. "Fooled users" is an incredibly mean-spirited way of looking at it - iMessage certainly "fools users" into thinking it is SMS far more. Users care about the result, not the method used.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#112

Post by untog »

polskibus wrote: post #16

Long time ago, Google chat supported XMPP. Later on that support has been cut off. How do they expect people to trust this statement: "We don’t believe in taking the approach that Apple does. We are fundamentally an open ecosystem. We believe in working with partners. We believe in working with our OEMs to be able to deliver a great experience,” ?

> How do they expect people to trust this statement

Because they're using an open, industry-created standard. It certainly isn't in their interests to do so (unless Apple also adopts it, which... we'll see)

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#113

Post by chii »

enitihas wrote: post #93
xab9 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's good. When firefox started slowly killing xul and the clusterfuck called IE stopped being the top (rabid) dog, a new kid had to come along. Google+ seemed like an afterthought, a way to create a facebook clone without creating a facebook clone.

Google+ was given the most importance of any project within Google as far as I know.

Politically, it's given importance, but users didn't see it that way, unlike chrome.

It just goes to show that an exec pushing a project doesn't mean much when it's a shit project.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#114

Post by _ea1k »

andybak wrote: post #56
dandare wrote: post #21

I don't see a single reason to invest myself into Google messaging product once again. I was adamant gtalk/hangout user but you can only fuck me over so many times.

I've actually just quietly gone on using hangouts and ignored whatever strategy statements they make. It's not perfect but it still works and I see no reason to stop.

Yeah, me too. It is definitely better than all of their other choices.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#115

Post by bitL »

elvirs wrote: post #94

Its shocking how Google is embarrassing itself with these incompatible chat apps released one after another and abandoned right after the release. GTalk Gmail Chat Google Voice Hangouts Android Messages Allo Duo for fucks sake Google, just copy Whatsapp but make it stored on cloud, not on the device, like FB Messenger. Enable account recovery using email in addition to sms and enable usernames or email in addition ph…

That's what you get when you apply reinforcement learning company-wide and set rewards +500k +promotion for completely new, "revolutionary" products ;-)

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#116

Post by notyourday »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #82
eigenvector wrote: post #29

RCS is an improvement to SMS but it does not address the core limitations: it is owned and controlled by carriers, so your ability to contact someone is entirely dependent on that user's carrier. It is tied to a single, physical device. WhatsApp shot to popularity because it was the opposite of SMS: an entirely over-the-top service that everyone could use, on any platform, without the consent, extra billing or buggy…

WhatsApp, nothing more than another internet messaging app that requires data, shot to popularity because it fooled users into thinking it was somehow an SMS client because it used phone number as account.

Right.

So basically it works, it was $1/year, it allowed to text, send images and send videos and one only needed to know someone's existing identifier (phone number) to connect to them.

Who would have thought that making something that works would eat messaging?!

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#117

Post by fauigerzigerk »

rrdharan wrote: post #80
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #76

Every time there is a choice to make for Google on messaging they predictably make the wrong one. How on earth can you control the most widely used OS on the planet and not be able to capture some market share without handing more power to operators?

The (not-so-)secret is, they don’t control it.

What exactly does Google not control that prevents them from pushing one high quality messaging app that is independent of network operators?

What control do network operators have over Android?

Device and SOC makers do indeed have some control over Android. But that is unrelated to Google's messaging mess.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#118

Post by SamWhited »

throwaway899 wrote: post #28

I would really love that we all start using some open chat standard (Like XMPP) so WhatsApp, Telegram, etc. could talk to each other. Or something like email, you could have foo@whatsapp.com or foo@telegram.org and that would be your 'chat address' and all clients could talk to each other

Even if it weren't federated (though I do miss Google Talk), there would still be some value in using an open standard. If I can only afford a feature phone, there are XMPP clients for it (or they can be developed relatively easily), even if I don't get all the features. Using open standards, even if you don't make the service open, still makes you more inclusive and helps a lot of people who would otherwise be shut out of your service.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#119

Post by tosh »

Great example of how expensive it becomes over time to name (almost) every product you create "Brand" + x.

Google is eroding trust in its product offering & regularly adding an adoption handicap to their whole product portfolio.

P&G, Unilever et al know this. I'd expect the software companies to learn from the challenges of the "supermarket"-era brands.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#120

Post by sethhochberg »

jimktrains2 wrote: post #100
exabrial wrote: post #87

The carriers are idiots. It's where innovation goes to die. We had to pull them kicking and screaming into the smart phone and data era. (Remember When AT&T sent a paper copy of every image you downloaded on your iPhone in a bill?) Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all . It's insecure, slow, unreliable,…

> Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all. It's insecure, slow, unreliable, monitored, among many other things. Push the manufacturers to an open Android messaging api that runs over TLS (or double ratchet) and bypasses the carriers completely, but the manufacturers can still rebrand. But it's universal. I…

Its both universal _and_ relies on the voice network rather than the data network (if the device even has one). SMS is a fundamental part of the GSM spec, has been for over 30 years, and is one of those super lightweight battle-tested technologies that there are certainly some pretty great IP-based alternatives to, but which replacing wholesale for some yet-another-IP-based-rebranded-messanger seems crazy. The beauty of SMS riding on the voice network is that it gives you redundancy. Phone doesn't have a data signal, but can get voice? SMS still works.

Until we live in a world where GSM and friends are dead and everything everywhere is VoLTE, SMS still has a place as a fallback.

I'm always a little surprised to come into HN comment threads about SMS and see so many people rallying for its replacement, yet we go into a thread about Slack and see many of the same arguments being made to defend IRC, etc.

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