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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#81

Post by noahl »

eigenvector wrote: post #33
polskibus wrote: post #16

Long time ago, Google chat supported XMPP. Later on that support has been cut off. How do they expect people to trust this statement: "We don’t believe in taking the approach that Apple does. We are fundamentally an open ecosystem. We believe in working with partners. We believe in working with our OEMs to be able to deliver a great experience,” ?

It's almost as if they don't understand that much of the value of iOS as a platform comes from Apple's consistent willingness to tell carriers to go pound sand.

I would guess that they do know that, but they think for whatever reason that they can't get away with doing the same thing. (Or maybe they'd have to sacrifice something else that they care about - if they started setting higher standards and got 90% of carriers on board, but the other 10% stopped selling Android devices, would that be worth it for them?)

I'm not sure if they're right, but I am pretty confident there are tradeoffs here.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#82

Post by ChrisArchitect »

eigenvector wrote: post #29

RCS is an improvement to SMS but it does not address the core limitations: it is owned and controlled by carriers, so your ability to contact someone is entirely dependent on that user's carrier. It is tied to a single, physical device. WhatsApp shot to popularity because it was the opposite of SMS: an entirely over-the-top service that everyone could use, on any platform, without the consent, extra billing or buggy…

WhatsApp, nothing more than another internet messaging app that requires data, shot to popularity because it fooled users into thinking it was somehow an SMS client because it used phone number as account.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#83

Post by stephenr »

seabrookmx wrote: post #60
dandare wrote: post #21

I don't see a single reason to invest myself into Google messaging product once again. I was adamant gtalk/hangout user but you can only fuck me over so many times.

To be fair, the migration from Talk to Hangouts was pretty smooth, and Hangouts still works. Google gave up pushing Hangouts for consumers but I don't think it's going anywhere, as it's a big part of G-suite for corporate customers. Though with Slack and Discord I'm sure it's usage isn't as strong as it once was.

> the migration from Talk to Hangouts was pretty smooth

I take it you never used google talk via xmpp.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#84

Post by stephenr »

dandare wrote: post #21

I don't see a single reason to invest myself into Google messaging product once again. I was adamant gtalk/hangout user but you can only fuck me over so many times.

You can take “messaging” out of that first sentence.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#85

Post by arpit »

Will this now now third party services will be able to send rich messages to a phone number? This could be a good or a bad thing. I occasionally get random messages from my carrier or ad spammers, not looking forward to them including images or media in those.

On the flip side, if you are a startup, you would be able to send rich messages to your clients without having to integrate Facebook messenger, Whatsapp etc etc

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#87

Post by exabrial »

The carriers are idiots. It's where innovation goes to die.

We had to pull them kicking and screaming into the smart phone and data era. (Remember When AT&T sent a paper copy of every image you downloaded on your iPhone in a bill?)

Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all. It's insecure, slow, unreliable, monitored, among many other things. Push the manufacturers to an open Android messaging api that runs over TLS (or double ratchet) and bypasses the carriers completely, but the manufacturers can still rebrand.

The other issue is Apple. For as much as they claim "privacy is a human right", they have been jerks about making sure iMessage drags it's feet using secure technologies to communicate outside of their ecosystem. Apple wants to ride a white horse on encryption, but in reality they're having an opposite, negative, effect on the vast majority of the world's population.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#88

Post by arbitrage »

baybal2 wrote: post #39
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s funny because they squashed open standards when they were the big player and then push for open standards when they’ve lost market share. I wish companies believed in open standards for the value they bring to society, rather than selectively supporting them based on competitive interests.

I think there is a pattern with Google: Social network: Orkut was their one and only working social network. Google - it is not great, so we raze it to the ground and make a better product... and they were trying to do so for last 12 years. Messenger: Talk was their one and only working messenger. Google - it is not great, so we raze it to the ground and make a better product... and they were trying to do so for last…

Orkut was great ... but not exploitable in terms of commerce. It lost almost all its market share in the industrially developed West, but was huge in BRIC countries. Not the target demographic Google was looking to exploit at the time. And thus it got killed.

Google is primarily a marketing company. They need to make money off of their products. In that context, all the products you reference, which I agree were pretty great, were not useful to Google. So they got killed, or allowed to languish, in the hope that they would at least drive new users into the Google ecosystem.

I do have to disagree with part of your assessment of Google Photos. You are 100% accurate ... it's a file dumpster with a UI that I routinely forget about. And that's perfect. I do not need to have a relationship with my software. But it quietly functions in the background, and periodically rewards me with an animation or AI-generated image? Hey, that's pretty cool. I'll share that with my family and friends. And that's what Google wants to see.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#89

Post by stephenr »

tallanvor wrote: post #50
bb88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Years ago 1998ish(?), there was a fight to open up chat applications AIM, ICQ, YIM, etc. We had to have 20 apps to chat with each other. Fast forward 20 years, and here we are again, FB Messenger, Kik, WhatsApp, Allo, Signal, Telegram, SMS, Slack, etc. At least this appears to be a "standard" that everyone can use again.

But it doesn't really seem to be a standard that everyone can use. Like others have pointed out, FB and Google both originally built their products on XMPP, and only later decided to lock out competing options. With SMS I know that I can send a text to anyone. With RCS, I don't know what would be supported by each carrier.

> With SMS I know that I can send a text to anyone.

Unless their phone is turned off, or in a different room, or they’re in a different country, or they’re outside cell coverage and have wifi only.

I’m not arguing googles shit is good, but sms is a fucking woeful alternative.

I send most “messages” from my laptop, and about 1/3 are “international”.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#90

Post by xab9 »

majewsky wrote: post #72
dannyw wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And it didn’t work. What makes you think it’ll work this time?

Chrome was also heavily marketed, and that worked just fine.

Because it's good. When firefox started slowly killing xul and the clusterfuck called IE stopped being the top (rabid) dog, a new kid had to come along.

Google+ seemed like an afterthought, a way to create a facebook clone without creating a facebook clone.

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