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Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

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Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#91

Post by stephenr »

eloisant wrote: post #41
bhaavan wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://xkcd.com/927/ Relevant xkcd.

I'm a bit tired of people pulling out this comic each time a new standard appears. Whatsapp, Telegram, FB, iMessages are NOT standards. They're closed systems controlled by a single company. XMPP is a standard from the days of ICQ, AIM, MSN, etc. Unfortunately it failed. SMS is a standard for mobile phone text communications. It's too limited now. RCS is the evolution of SMS. I don't think RCS is a redundant standard…

Xmpp didn’t fail - the major companies who all built their messaging platforms on it just turned off federation.

RCS is still focussed on phones only, so it’s a non starter IMO. But it’s driven by the same companies that charge the equivalent of $1000+/mb for sms delivery, so it’s unsurprising that customer needs are not really their first priority.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#92

Post by berns »

majewsky wrote: post #68
eigenvector wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re. being able to switch carriers and still communicate, what happens when you travel and (temporarily) get a local SIM? Are you suddenly messaging all your existing contacts from an unrecognized foreign number "Hi, it's John, this is my temporary Thai number..." and then relying on that message not getting binned by some spam algorithm? What prevents carriers from charging extra for RCS messages originating abroad?

Isn't it the same with Whatsapp, Telegram, Signal, etc.? Those are all tied to your phone number.

With Telegram you can change the phone number and keep all the messages and contacts. It's also possible with Whatsapp, but with some limitations.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#93

Post by enitihas »

xab9 wrote: post #90
majewsky wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome was also heavily marketed, and that worked just fine.

Because it's good. When firefox started slowly killing xul and the clusterfuck called IE stopped being the top (rabid) dog, a new kid had to come along. Google+ seemed like an afterthought, a way to create a facebook clone without creating a facebook clone.

Google+ was given the most importance of any project within Google as far as I know.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#94

Post by elvirs »

Its shocking how Google is embarrassing itself with these incompatible chat apps released one after another and abandoned right after the release. GTalk Gmail Chat Google Voice Hangouts Android Messages Allo Duo for fucks sake Google, just copy Whatsapp but make it stored on cloud, not on the device, like FB Messenger. Enable account recovery using email in addition to sms and enable usernames or email in addition phone number to add contacts. Thats pretty much all you need to do to beat the competition thanks to your android influence

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#95

Post by tallanvor »

stephenr wrote: post #89
tallanvor wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't really seem to be a standard that everyone can use. Like others have pointed out, FB and Google both originally built their products on XMPP, and only later decided to lock out competing options. With SMS I know that I can send a text to anyone. With RCS, I don't know what would be supported by each carrier.

> With SMS I know that I can send a text to anyone. Unless their phone is turned off, or in a different room, or they’re in a different country, or they’re outside cell coverage and have wifi only. I’m not arguing googles shit is good, but sms is a fucking woeful alternative. I send most “messages” from my laptop, and about 1/3 are “international”.

I suppose if their phone is turned off outside cell coverage long enough then yes, they won't get it, but the rest of it isn't really an issue I've had to deal with. And with carriers determining RCS functionality, I'm not sure I see how having your laptop but not your phone is likely to make a real difference.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#96

Post by liveoneggs »

polskibus wrote: post #16

Long time ago, Google chat supported XMPP. Later on that support has been cut off. How do they expect people to trust this statement: "We don’t believe in taking the approach that Apple does. We are fundamentally an open ecosystem. We believe in working with partners. We believe in working with our OEMs to be able to deliver a great experience,” ?

These are all weasel words: "open ecosystem", "partners", "great experience"

They are signals that mean "closed" and "invasive"

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#97

Post by SamWhited »

LaGrange wrote: post #64
bb88 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people want party parrots. And there isn't a standard to send party parrots through XMPP. /s Okay, a little snarky, but it makes a point. Chat programs have a lot of proprietary features that won't translate through XMPP.

Pretty sure XMPP included extensions for sending arbitrary HTML and binary attachments. Now, support for janky mobile connections, that's another matter.

XMPPs actually been really good at this for quite some time; despite XML being a bit verbose, it compresses very well and it's had TCP like stream management at the application protocol layer for ages, among other things. It was pretty bad at low-bandwidth connections in the early 2000s, but now there are people running it over extremely low bandwidth high frequency radio, so a janky phone connection is no problem.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#98

Post by mynameisvlad »

elvirs wrote: post #94

Its shocking how Google is embarrassing itself with these incompatible chat apps released one after another and abandoned right after the release. GTalk Gmail Chat Google Voice Hangouts Android Messages Allo Duo for fucks sake Google, just copy Whatsapp but make it stored on cloud, not on the device, like FB Messenger. Enable account recovery using email in addition to sms and enable usernames or email in addition ph…

Google Voice and Duo are not messaging apps. GTalk, Hangouts, and GMail Chat are the same thing at different iterations and were therefore fully compatible with one another.

If you're going to criticize Google for this, at least be correct when doing it.

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#99

Post by danmaz74 »

ChrisArchitect wrote: post #82
eigenvector wrote: post #29

RCS is an improvement to SMS but it does not address the core limitations: it is owned and controlled by carriers, so your ability to contact someone is entirely dependent on that user's carrier. It is tied to a single, physical device. WhatsApp shot to popularity because it was the opposite of SMS: an entirely over-the-top service that everyone could use, on any platform, without the consent, extra billing or buggy…

WhatsApp, nothing more than another internet messaging app that requires data, shot to popularity because it fooled users into thinking it was somehow an SMS client because it used phone number as account.

Here in Italy, it shot to popularity because it was "free unlimited SMS for everybody".

Re: Google changes its messaging strategy again: Goodbye to Allo, double down on RCS

#100

Post by jimktrains2 »

exabrial wrote: post #87

The carriers are idiots. It's where innovation goes to die. We had to pull them kicking and screaming into the smart phone and data era. (Remember When AT&T sent a paper copy of every image you downloaded on your iPhone in a bill?) Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all . It's insecure, slow, unreliable,…

> Quite frankly the core problem with Google's strategy is involving then at all. Instead, go the manufacturers and campaign against supporting sms at all. It's insecure, slow, unreliable, monitored, among many other things. Push the manufacturers to an open Android messaging api that runs over TLS (or double ratchet) and bypasses the carriers completely, but the manufacturers can still rebrand.

But it's universal. I would never buy a phone that doesn't support sms. How do I contact people with flip phones? People with iPhones?

Also, Gchat is "monitored" as much as sms. Imessage claims it's not, but has that/can that be verified?

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