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The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

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Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#661

Post by Analemma_ »

modbait wrote: post #650
stupidcar wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hiring process is a response to the fact that employers cannot trust a single word candidates say about their experience. This isn't paranoia. Literally, most candidates we see cannot code, even when they supposed have a decade or more of industry experience. If the industry wasn't so full of lying incompetents, it wouldn't be an issue.

If you can't tell in a ten-minute casual conversation whether or not someone is grossly lying on their resume, you probably shouldn't be an interviewer.

They can: with FizzBuzz. That's the whole point.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#662

Post by eeZah7Ux »

vonmoltke wrote: post #554
chiefalchemist wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our industry's hiring practices are absolutely obnoxious. In an ideal world, you could trust someone's resume. Working for nothing __is__ obnoxious. Not to belittle anyone but...a plumber is licensed. An electrician is licensed. Even a hair stylist is licensed. Perhaps licensing a programmer / developer / engineer would be over doing it. (Read: Yes, it would be. But the examples do help.) That said, can't there be…

> Not to belittle anyone but...a plumber is licensed. An electrician is licensed. Even a hair stylist is licensed. Shitty plumbers are licensed. Shitty electricians are licensed. Shitty hair stylists are licensed. A license says nothing about current competence. It says the person demonstrated some minimal level of competence at one point, fills out their paperwork every year, and hasn't fucked up royally enough yet…

Indeed: you can become a "licensed dietitian" in a day or two.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#663

Post by user5994461 »

SilasX wrote: post #420
ams6110 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best "work environment" tech job I ever had was at an investment bank. Didn't disrupt anything (quite the opposite) but got great experience with databases, unix, C, scripting, working with internal clients, determining requirements, managing projects, etc. 9:00 - 4:30 daily hours, no nights, no weekends. Full benefits, good salary, good yearly bonus, quiet office, great people who were there to get a job done an…

Interesting! How would you recommend someone transition from a startup-y job to one of those? Anything they look for in terms of qualifications?

They're large companies recruiting pretty much in all area of technologies. If you have experience in something, you should be able to get an introduction through a recruiter or find an existing employee to reference you.

The only trouble is that finance is only in the NYC area. You can't be there if you are in the valley.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#664

Post by itronitron »

LoSboccacc wrote: post #204
your-nanny wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What questions, if you don't mind my askibg

work environment, fluidity of assignment, career opportunities, acceptance of suggestion, involvement of developers into the design process, key tools and applications, workflow automation expectations... there are lot little details that one can ask and will give you back a picture of how the working environment is going to be. here's a good starter list, even if I find it too formulaic and question you need to ask…

includes dev-ops, pace of development, how and when does code end up in _production_? It is important to ask at least two different people separately because you are likely to get different answers.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#666

Post by tzakrajs »

nikanj wrote: post #543
ams6110 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best "work environment" tech job I ever had was at an investment bank. Didn't disrupt anything (quite the opposite) but got great experience with databases, unix, C, scripting, working with internal clients, determining requirements, managing projects, etc. 9:00 - 4:30 daily hours, no nights, no weekends. Full benefits, good salary, good yearly bonus, quiet office, great people who were there to get a job done an…

There's a very strong correlation "you have to dress like an adult", and "you will be treated like an adult". Yes, a lot of adults wear sweatshirts and hoodies now. However, if you wore a shirt and tie to a high school, they would make fun of you for dressing up like your dad. We have collectively agreed on a "grown-up" attire.

The zeitgeist in tech and in culture generally is a moving target. Look at dandyism in the 19th century, no one would argue that is how grown-ups dress today.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#667

Post by eeZah7Ux »

cakebrewery wrote: post #241
mylons wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

licensing might not be a bad route, similar to a carpenter's license or a bar exam

So, like certifications? Last I heard those are frowned upon in our industry.

Only because they are too easy, or for profit, or focused on using a given product or unimportant concepts.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#668

Post by underwater »

CodeMage wrote: post #335
majormajor wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a 10 hour project-specific coding task reduces mis-hires by 50%+, isn't it better for both parties? Does this fully replace the onsite? If I'm fully employed, interviewing with three or four places, and expected to take a day off and visit each of them, adding another full day of work on top of each is a big hurdle. To keep going with the devil's advocate: If one of your competitors says "ok based on your initia…

I cannot agree enough. I'm okay with most of the interviewing practices out there, but there has to be some kind of balance between the company's needs and mine. One of the most mind-boggling interviewing processes I've been through went like this: 1. Write a program that satisfies the given requirements. Be sure to use the specified design pattern they explicitly requested. Include a suite of unit tests and instruct…

It sounds like their signalling on culture achieved the right thing for everyone involved. I wouldn’t want to go anywhere near that company.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#669

Post by rozenmd »

tzakrajs wrote: post #659
user5994461 wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is stupid. They should always do the take home test first or after a short phone call. It's easier and saves everyone time.

Part of the interview process is selling the organization and its people. Maybe companies prioritize phone screenings and interviews first to steer the process and educate the candidate about the company and the position. Maybe candidates would be less likely to try the coding project if they hadn't built some rapport with an employee.

Also need to figure out if the candidate is a lizard person - having a real life conversation with them about the company is a good start.

Re: The latest trend for tech interviews: Days of unpaid homework

#670

Post by toss1 »

Arzh wrote: post #588
toss1 wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WHAT?!? Getting the right team is one of, if not THE key to startup success. Yet you consider it not worth a senior engineer's time to evaluate the candidates for the next hire, and the presumably with whom they will need to work - productively? Check your org's runway and be sure to have your resume ready when it gets close to the end. I wouldn't expect take-off.

Sorry I assumed that the word 'screen' was universal. This is the first step, it is a waste of a senior engineers time with a candidate that is not even close to ready for the job.

Yes, I suppose 'screen' is a bit ambiguous. Doesn't seem like a pool of a dozen is the first step. I'd want the Sr Devs involved at least out past the final half-dozen if not dozen -- not for 4 hours each, but at least a chat about what they've done, problem-solving approaches, etc.

I wish you luck

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