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California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

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Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#81
post #29

THIS IS FANTASTIC. I’ve had a friend, a specialist engineer doing failure analysis, who has been largely incapacitated from any work because of Tesla. He sustained an injury during a high urgency project (which failed, whodathunk) which required him to work 16 hour days for a few months. During the course of this, he sustained injuries to arms and legs due to machinery issues (the machinery at Tesla often has workers…

That's crazy. What happened, generally speaking? Was he hit by something, or more along the lines of a receptive stress injury?

Which part of this story is crazy? That someone got injured working at an automotive plant, that they were strongly encouraged to do overtime, or that their employer declined to assume any liability?

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#82

THIS IS FANTASTIC. I’ve had a friend, a specialist engineer doing failure analysis, who has been largely incapacitated from any work because of Tesla. He sustained an injury during a high urgency project (which failed, whodathunk) which required him to work 16 hour days for a few months. During the course of this, he sustained injuries to arms and legs due to machinery issues (the machinery at Tesla often has workers…

Doesn't California have Workers' Compensation? I once injured myself on the job a long time ago in Florida (drill press nearly turned my finger into a Pez dispenser), and with a little paperwork, all my medical bills were covered by WC. I thought it worked like that in all 50 states.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The journalists refute what Tesla is saying in their ongoing AMA: Hi there, we did this reporting completely independently of the union. This is another instance of deceptive Tesla wording, when Tesla says: working directly with union supporters what they mean is that some of the workers Reveal interviewed were in the union. Of course some of the interviewees weren't tied to the union but those go unmentioned.

I have got to say, in the past year I have gotten from "oh I should get a Tesla some day if I need a car" to "nope, never buying anything from these guys". I appreciate what Tesla did to popularize electric cars, but everything else isn't that great.

your loss, they're the best cars on the road. it's iphone 2007 vs flip phone...

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#84
It's really surprising to me see posts critical of Tesla highly upvoted on HN these days. It tells me the narrative around Tesla is finally starting to break down, and naturally the stock price has declined from its highs as well.

A few years ago most of the comments here would have been much more sycophantic. It's very refreshing to see.

edit: Ok maybe it's not completely gone yet.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#85
post #62

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record. Like a lot of tech companies in Silicon Valley, workers signed non-disclosure agreements. NDAs usually are put in place so workers don't share any trade secrets or proprietary technology. So some workers were scared to talk to us because of this NDA they sign for working at Tesla. Damn, so workers were afraid to speak up and spread the injury info because they…

Is it possible there wasn’t anything to talk about? We are assuming that they had something to say but didn’t because of an NDA, but are we considering that they might not have anything to say?

If something illegal is happening, California law provides that NDAs are not enforceable when in conjunction with some criminal acts. Furthermore, NDAs can’t protect against a witness being subpoenaed or being required to testify in a court proceeding.

California whistleblower laws are also quite clear on the matter. It isn’t “getting out of control.”

It’s very possible that a reporter is using the existence of an NDA to imply something that can’t be confirmed or refuted. Remember, reporters are ambitious and have inherent bias as well. Just because someone doesn’t want to go on the record doesn’t mean they are acknowledging a problem. They might just genuinely not want to talk to reporters.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole play with making their own tooling seems ill conceived at Tesla's small scale, and it has definitely set the Model 3's production back quite a bit.

This has been true across the board at Tesla... they make almost all of the parts in house, even when there are established reliable providers... even when it costs them more and results in lower quality.. even when they are already short staffed. Musk is pro-NIH syndrome. In fairness, Musk says they will eventually be as reliable, and as high quality as others and it'll be cheaper.. one day. That's the common NIH fa…

> even when it costs them more and results in lower quality.

The advantage of keeping much knowledge in-house is that you are not subject to extortion campaigns (e.g. the Prevent/VW dispute. In addition you

- are always exposing your internal knowledge to the part vendor and have to rely on the vendor protecting your IP from other customers, so "inventing here" works out better.

- are not bound to endless rounds of waterfall development. Tesla is heavily agile from what can be seen in reports... keeping communications (and decisions!) short saves money and especially time. Where time is Teslas biggest issue - just like a Tesla will kill almost anything at a drag race, eventually the gas-powered engine will win as it can go to higher speeds... and this is even more valid in terms of production. Tesla absolutely has to develop rapidly so they can get an established mass production e-car before Mercedes, BMW, VW and especially Toyota catch up and fly past Tesla.

- have to factor in margins for the vendors and by extension also their refinancing cost - Tesla gets shovelled with cheap cash, a vendor must build production lines with significantly more expensive capital. This adds up especially over many years...

- have less issues if something goes bad. For the old model, if a defect turns up it's usually a complex and long negotiation process where each side wants to avoid assuming blame (and thus costs). For Tesla, this cost risk falls away for all parts they manufacture in-house.

- have less probability for a catastrophic fuck up, I'd say. While a vendor has to "save face" and so has the incentive to e.g. hide issues that crop up during development or, worse, production from the customer (in order to avoid delay or other fines), the incentive for a Tesla-internal department is much less, as there are no delay fines.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#87
post #62

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record. Like a lot of tech companies in Silicon Valley, workers signed non-disclosure agreements. NDAs usually are put in place so workers don't share any trade secrets or proprietary technology. So some workers were scared to talk to us because of this NDA they sign for working at Tesla. Damn, so workers were afraid to speak up and spread the injury info because they…

> I think somebody needs to do something about this NDA situation, it’s getting out of control in SV Not just in SV, it's all over the world. IMHO the right of protection for whistleblowers should be made a basic human right, in order to protect people worldwide who are afraid to speak out.

California law DOES protect whistleblowers. The law is extremely clear. Those laws even provide for damages due to retailiation.

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#88

THIS IS FANTASTIC. I’ve had a friend, a specialist engineer doing failure analysis, who has been largely incapacitated from any work because of Tesla. He sustained an injury during a high urgency project (which failed, whodathunk) which required him to work 16 hour days for a few months. During the course of this, he sustained injuries to arms and legs due to machinery issues (the machinery at Tesla often has workers…

Doesn't California have Workers' Compensation? I once injured myself on the job a long time ago in Florida (drill press nearly turned my finger into a Pez dispenser), and with a little paperwork, all my medical bills were covered by WC. I thought it worked like that in all 50 states.

> Doesn't California have Workers' Compensation?

Yes, all California employers are required to offer workers compensation benefits, and to inform employees about their rights under workers comp law.

https://www.dir.ca.gov/dwc/faqs.html

Re: California Opens Investigation into Tesla Workplace Conditions

#89
post #62

> It was difficult to find employees to go on the record. Like a lot of tech companies in Silicon Valley, workers signed non-disclosure agreements. NDAs usually are put in place so workers don't share any trade secrets or proprietary technology. So some workers were scared to talk to us because of this NDA they sign for working at Tesla. Damn, so workers were afraid to speak up and spread the injury info because they…

> I think somebody needs to do something about this NDA situation, it’s getting out of control in SV Not just in SV, it's all over the world. IMHO the right of protection for whistleblowers should be made a basic human right, in order to protect people worldwide who are afraid to speak out.

The founding fathers should have written something about this right into the constitution...
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