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Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

newyorker.com

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Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#51

Post by reaperducer »

chrischen wrote: post #35
reaperducer wrote: post #34

Neither surprising, nor new. This has been going on for years in a number of countries (Spain, Italy, etc...) just so the goods can be marked "Made in *". The TV image of the careful old craftsman hand-sweing your luggage is a falsehood. It's sweatshops all over again. It's even happening in the United States. Louis Vuitton does its repairs with immigrant labor in southern California so it can say the work was done i…

What's wrong with immigrant labor (apart from them taking "our" jobs)?

They are often exploited, trafficked, abused, and paid less than anyone else.

Again, see "sweatshops."

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#52

Post by throwaway9d0 »

chrischen wrote: post #50
make3 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it is implied that they are payed at a sweatshop price in sweatshop conditions

So it's implied that in Southern California they are breaking minimum wage laws? Also, exploitation only applies if the workers 1) have no better option and 2) their options are artificially constrained by the party offering their only option. Anything else is simply failing to understand their situation.

Segregation is technically illegal, but if you look at a census map for 8 Mile Rd in Michigan, it’s all white people to the north and black people to the south. In other words, please don’t assume that injustices can’t somehow still occur within systems that, by the letter of the law, have done away with injustice. I don’t know how to epxlain to you that immigrants assembling consumerist garbage in the US probably aren’t doing it because they weighed other options and thought it was the best one... And if you think they can “just leave”, ask yourself why so many of them haven’t.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#53

Post by ra1n85 »

chrischen wrote: post #35
reaperducer wrote: post #34

Neither surprising, nor new. This has been going on for years in a number of countries (Spain, Italy, etc...) just so the goods can be marked "Made in *". The TV image of the careful old craftsman hand-sweing your luggage is a falsehood. It's sweatshops all over again. It's even happening in the United States. Louis Vuitton does its repairs with immigrant labor in southern California so it can say the work was done i…

What's wrong with immigrant labor (apart from them taking "our" jobs)?

Nothing is wrong with immigrant labor.

It's the abuse of immigrant labor that's wrong.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#54

Post by eecc »

Cyph0n wrote: post #29
eecc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're probably referring to Gomorra, based on a novel by Roberto Saviano - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0929425/

There is also a TV show which I honestly think is much better than the movie.

Yes, I've heard about it but never seen it. The book is just fantastic, anyone should read it to understand what's become of Italy.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#55

Post by jiveturkey »

padobson wrote: post #2

As I read this, the New Yorker seemed to highlight the problems from a more leftist, social safety net perspective. The Chinese immigrants circumvented the tax code in every way they could - working under the table, starting unregistered businesses in garages and vans, living in the garages and vans, even dying secretly so their passports could be repurposed for new immigrants. This meant hospitals and other public s…

> This meant hospitals and other public services went underfunded.

I don't buy it.

At the wage these folks would make if on the books (ie, minimum wage) they'd pay no or almost no taxes.

So we're only talking about lost payroll taxes. Yes, the part of that that goes to public services is lost, but the people on whose behalf they are paid are also not using public services to a large degree.

I'm sure it's not exactly a wash, but for the most part public services are paid for by high wage earners.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#56

Post by wil421 »

chrischen wrote: post #35
reaperducer wrote: post #34

Neither surprising, nor new. This has been going on for years in a number of countries (Spain, Italy, etc...) just so the goods can be marked "Made in *". The TV image of the careful old craftsman hand-sweing your luggage is a falsehood. It's sweatshops all over again. It's even happening in the United States. Louis Vuitton does its repairs with immigrant labor in southern California so it can say the work was done i…

What's wrong with immigrant labor (apart from them taking "our" jobs)?

Did you even read the article? There are pleanty of negative impacts caused by this specific method of cheap immigrant labor.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#57

Post by asveikau »

mistermann wrote: post #42
asveikau wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to me that you would see the economic arguments and assume they were a genuinely held first principle and not an inauthentic PR line meant to resonate with the more base fear and hatred. In the United States at least there is a long history of this. Go look up what Lee Atwater said about the southern strategy. Summary: they embraced lines about low taxes and small government because it was getting im…

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, it's interesting to me that you see arguments and (seemingly) can't consider that it's even possible for them to be genuinely held as first principles, and that they must be motivated by "fear" and "hatred" (as if economic protectionism cannot be based in rationality, it must always be racially motivated).

In the US political example I gave (Lee Atwater), you have a Reagan era strategist who admitted privately on tape that it was racially motivated.

And then we have about 4 decades worth of the policy record of what happens when the supposed "small government" advocates get into power. Tell me, why do they end up deficit spending? Is it because they are overwhelmed by the reality of running government? Or is it that they never held the position very strongly in the first place? My personal interpretation is even more cynical, that perhaps they actually like the thing they claim to oppose, so long as it benefits the "right" people.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#58

Post by forkLding »

kiliantics wrote: post #43
forkLding wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying you are left wing or saying you are right wing wont get you a job is my summarization, its interesting dinner talk. I cant directly survive on left or right wing politics unless Im a political commentator but you're right in that I'm indirectly affected. Its almost like religion, just because I'm Christian doesnt put food on my table but Christianity affects the culture and society I'm in but I have to be a pr…

I don't think politics is about party allegiances. I think politics is about caring which dynamics your society operates with and taking whatever actions you can to influence them. Many conflate this with voting for parties but that is only one way of taking action out of many. Sure, it's similar to religion in that your desired social structure depends on your adopted ideology. But, whether you think it or not, you…

My argument is that people are fighting too much on left and right wing lines.

Saying you are left wing or right wing can now be accepted as the distinction of right and wrong, then there is no point of political discussion, as a title puts you in either the right and wrong.

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#59

Post by throwaway834768 »

throwaway9d0 wrote: post #52
chrischen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's implied that in Southern California they are breaking minimum wage laws? Also, exploitation only applies if the workers 1) have no better option and 2) their options are artificially constrained by the party offering their only option. Anything else is simply failing to understand their situation.

Segregation is technically illegal, but if you look at a census map for 8 Mile Rd in Michigan, it’s all white people to the north and black people to the south. In other words, please don’t assume that injustices can’t somehow still occur within systems that, by the letter of the law, have done away with injustice. I don’t know how to epxlain to you that immigrants assembling consumerist garbage in the US probably ar…

“Segregation is technically illegal, but if you look at a census map for 8 Mile Rd in Michigan, it’s all white people to the north and black people to the south”

Is theRe a historic reason for this, or example of schellings segregation model?

http://ncase.me/polygons/

Re: Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Italy

#60

Post by chrischen »

throwaway9d0 wrote: post #52
chrischen wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's implied that in Southern California they are breaking minimum wage laws? Also, exploitation only applies if the workers 1) have no better option and 2) their options are artificially constrained by the party offering their only option. Anything else is simply failing to understand their situation.

Segregation is technically illegal, but if you look at a census map for 8 Mile Rd in Michigan, it’s all white people to the north and black people to the south. In other words, please don’t assume that injustices can’t somehow still occur within systems that, by the letter of the law, have done away with injustice. I don’t know how to epxlain to you that immigrants assembling consumerist garbage in the US probably ar…

Also, exploitation only applies if the workers 1) have no better option and 2) their options are artificially constrained by the party offering their only option. Anything else is simply failing to understand their situation.

Simply because they are abiding by minimum wage laws and making less than you are per hour does not mean they are exploited. Simply because Detroit is segregated in practice (as a result of factors beyond the control of most of the individuals) does not mean these workers are exploited. The fact that the dinosaurs went extinct even though they too, like us, deserve a chance to exist does not mean these workers were exploited.

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