I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter • Hacker News Board

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#81

Post by _bxg1 » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 3:47 PM UTC

jeffdavis wrote: post #40

Nav_Panel wrote: post #15

> why should the world trust Facebook or Zuckerberg to shape and manage this new global meta-society? Could Zuckerberg, who wields considerable power over Facebook’s share structure, develop the self-awareness and responsibility to manage it? > it’s time to set real limits on Facebook’s power Makes me wonder: who will be setting those limits, and how can we know they will have the "self-awareness and responsibility"…

Exactly. Freedom is not just a set of laws, it's an attitude and a culture that can step back from popular convenient choices and avoid ones that concentrate power. Crucially, individuals need to be willing to sacrifice something -- usually a moderate amount of money or safety -- or it's not ever going to work.

Or, increasingly, simple convenience

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#82

Post by parenthephobia » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 3:50 PM UTC

Barjak wrote: post #43

Am I alone in thinking this isn't heresy? A country or federal state is just a company with a monopoly over law in a certain geographical region. Facebook's "monopoly" is at least subject to the whim of the market, as the Delete Facebook campaign shows. Look at last week. The senate was on their high-horse, admonishing facebook for privacy infringements, totally unaware of the irony they are an appendage of the same…

If we must make this comparison, most actual companies are totalitarian dictatorships.

> We can all opt out of Facebook.

Can we? What is the practical effect of doing so? Will they stop tracking us on the web? Will they stop gathering data about us via people with whom we are associated?

Facebook is a crowd-sourced global surveillance program from which there is no real opt-out and over which there are no checks and balances because most of the people running it don't even think they're running a surveillance program.

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#83

Post by mLuby » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:00 PM UTC

knuththetruth wrote: post #74

mattmanser wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does all the people who fought, died, campaigned and worked to institute democracies over dictatorships or feudal lords a great dis-service to tout this drivel. You want to make the NSA an election issue? You can go campaign on it. Setup a party, gather people to your cause. Vote. You can't do anything even remotely similar to influence google or facebook.

Their employees can with labor organization. Strikes to end these kinds of abuses at Google and Facebook would end them. The thing the management of these companies fear more than anything is their employees realizing the power inherent in collectively withdrawing their labor from them.

Only possible because government sits above companies and regulates them (and their ability to break strikes).

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#84

Post by carapace » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

parthdesai wrote: post #26

NeonVice wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was hoping that a congressman would ask Zuckerberg if he still viewed his users this way. I'm sure he had a well-prepared response to this exact question, just in case.

Look, i really don't like fb's practices as much as the next guy here ( you can check my history if you want to) but are you really going to hold someone accountable for something they said when they were 19-21?

It's pointing out that he's not some cyber-saint.

What can we look at that would stand as evidence that he's not a huge douche-bag?

Renaming the SF General Hospital after himself? His recent behavior in front of Congress?

Show me the evidence that he's a good person, please.

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#85

Post by carapace » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

pcunite wrote: post #7

Quote from the article: Cambridge Analytica is a scandal that isn’t a scandal: Everyone who has ever worked on or with the Facebook platform knew that for several years, the platform made data available to third-party developers by design. Why is this news and a problem now? What made the sky fall? If everyone knew, then why has someone been picked to be the bad guy now ?

It's almost as if it's gone viral...

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#86

Post by mannykannot » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

leggomylibro wrote: post #48

Barjak wrote: post #43

Am I alone in thinking this isn't heresy? A country or federal state is just a company with a monopoly over law in a certain geographical region. Facebook's "monopoly" is at least subject to the whim of the market, as the Delete Facebook campaign shows. Look at last week. The senate was on their high-horse, admonishing facebook for privacy infringements, totally unaware of the irony they are an appendage of the same…

>We can all opt out of Facebook. Thankfully many have. I'm pretty sure that is not accurate. We can't opt out of Facebook without significant effort which most people aren't even aware is possible and which can prevent some websites from working (NoScript, router rules, etc). They use the 'share' buttons built into most websites to collect information about and profit off of people who never signed up for the service…

For example, someone could tag your face in a photograph even if you don't have a Facebook account.

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#87

Post by gus_massa » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

Barjak wrote: post #43

Am I alone in thinking this isn't heresy? A country or federal state is just a company with a monopoly over law in a certain geographical region. Facebook's "monopoly" is at least subject to the whim of the market, as the Delete Facebook campaign shows. Look at last week. The senate was on their high-horse, admonishing facebook for privacy infringements, totally unaware of the irony they are an appendage of the same…

Most people interpret “Companies over countries” as “My company over my country”.

It's an heresy only if it is my country.

As an example, a lot of people is mad because Intel didn't tell (officially) to the US government about Spectre&Meltdown before the disclosure date. Should they also had toll it to Russia, China, UK and France?

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#88

Post by prolepunk » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #69

agentultra wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Am I alone in thinking this isn't heresy? A country or federal state is just a company with a monopoly over law in a certain geographical region. A nation state is backed by armies, monetary obligations, and the need to co-operate with other nation states in each others' best interests (optimally). In order to protect its citizens and monetary interests and obligations most modern, well-functioning markets are regu…

> Facebook doesn't care about users, laws, and lacks any sense of moral or ethical standards. its difficult to say with a straight face that a government that runs trillions of deficits, spies constantly on its population, and engages in so called defensive wars abroad, cares about its citizens. The lack of responsibility is rampant among government figures.

You are comparing badly functioning government with businesses functioning as intended.

At least there's ability to enforce governmental responsibility through elections and free press.

Facebook can be leveraged in no other way then through government regulation, even if you opt out from facebook it still watches you, and good luck even understanding of what's going on if you're not a technical person.

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#89

Post by Lionsion » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:16 PM UTC

kingkongjaffa wrote: post #37

curiousgal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is the public lack of understanding of technology. A layman won't understand the phrase "Facebook API allowed access to data" as opposed to "There was a breach".

The worst part of that is that a layman only "thinks" he understands what "There was a breach" even begins to mean. But what/who do we blame? Is it the education systems staggering lack of ability to prepare people for modern, tech-enabled society in any sort of privacy-as-a-right context.

> But what/who do we blame?

No one? We shouldn't be assigning "blame" because the public doesn't have the same specialized education that we have to understand the nuances of "APIs" vs "breaches."

I think what needs to be done is to create an easily understandable formulation of "privacy-as-a-right" and teach that.

Re: I was Zuckerberg’s speechwriter

#90

Post by clairity » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

Barjak wrote: post #43

Am I alone in thinking this isn't heresy? A country or federal state is just a company with a monopoly over law in a certain geographical region. Facebook's "monopoly" is at least subject to the whim of the market, as the Delete Facebook campaign shows. Look at last week. The senate was on their high-horse, admonishing facebook for privacy infringements, totally unaware of the irony they are an appendage of the same…

it may not be heresy but it is naive. a market economy requires a supporting political environment from which to develop.

you need both, and both need tending by citizens. nothing about a company makes it implicitly better than a government (being able to start a company is good for you, but how do i know you're not a jerk?), and both need vigilance to keep in line.