Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#81

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:03 AM UTC

flukus wrote: post #68

lsh wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you actually used Windows 10?? The spotlight is squarely on Facebook and it's privacy intrusions right now, but the data collection when you own the OS must be several orders of magnitude larger. Don't be so eager to forgive them. They're not hugging Linux right now because they're a Good Company trying to Do No Evil.

Ubuntu is following MS lead and introducing data collection by default in 18.04. Google also have a couple of linux based options that are built with the sole purpose of collecting your data. MS for all their faults are at least still in the business of selling operating systems and not selling you.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#82

Post by tyingq » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:06 AM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #78

tyingq wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should be interesting to see if Fuschia gains some mindshare. Linux is "bloated" by LOC standards, but once you target a specific architecture, the LOC drops dramatically. The whole LOC drama train is tied to code that doesn't get compiled when you specify the architecture.

Are people who call Linux bloated for IoT-like devices really talking about lines of code? I always thought the main focus was on Linux's architectural layout and how closely tied it is to the x86 memory model & the PC in general. Realtime OSs are currently in vogue because they better match how some IoTs devices work, so there's less abstraction that doesn't apply to that circumstances (and therefore improved perfor…

That's fair. What's the counterpart example though? Is it Fuschia, or QNX, or similar? If so, why are they so niche? If there is an obvious better answer I'd expect more noise.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#83

Post by arnarbi » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:10 AM UTC

progval wrote: post #52

> Windows IoT runs on microprocessor units (MPUs) which have at least 100x the power of the MCU. > MediaTek is producing the first set of these new MCUs. These are low-powered, single-core ARM-A7 systems that run at 500MHz Er... what kind of hardware is Windows IoT supposed to run on?

They seem either confused about what "MCU" means, or intent on changing the commonly accepted meaning.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#84

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:10 AM UTC

cstejerean wrote: post #80

oldcynic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro edition ... Of course they collect data There's something fundamentally wrong with that to my mind, given how the Pro release of Windows has always been placed. I should not need to get an Enterprise release to be able to manage my own machine, restrict the phoning home, and control other basic features of my machine used in a professional context. I've no need of 101 features for managing 1,000 desktops and ne…

How much did you pay for Windows 10?

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#85

Post by grogenaut » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:13 AM UTC

cstejerean wrote: post #80

oldcynic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro edition ... Of course they collect data There's something fundamentally wrong with that to my mind, given how the Pro release of Windows has always been placed. I should not need to get an Enterprise release to be able to manage my own machine, restrict the phoning home, and control other basic features of my machine used in a professional context. I've no need of 101 features for managing 1,000 desktops and ne…

How much did you pay for Windows 10?

Do I, as a single person, have the option of buying a non-spyware version of windows 10? I paid $175 for windows 7... I'd pay $300 for a non-spyware version of windows but I don't think I can even buy solo windows 10 enterprise.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/windows-p...

Nope.. I can buy pro but I can only try enterprise.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#86

Post by tomc1985 » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:16 AM UTC

greenhouse_gas wrote: post #79

derefr wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used Windows 10 Server Core, or Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB? There's no data collection in either of those, because they're for serious people. The Home and Pro editions, meanwhile, are effectively "Xbox OS for PCs." They turn your computer into an entertainment appliance run and maintained by Microsoft itself. Of course they collect data, just like there are data-collection agents on all the nodes of your av…

>Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB So tell me, where can I buy that for my personal computer? >because they're for serious people No, because those who can get Windows 10 LTSB actually have the power to push back. Imagine telling Dell or HP that everything they type may be sent to MS at any time. >You can still take control So how can I permanently end all telemetry, now and forever on my box. I'm even willing to sign a let…

You used to be able to download a trial off the open web on MS' download portal.

I ran LTSB for a year and it was brilliant. But on day 366 (or whever my slmgr -rearm trick ran out) you get locked out with no real way to change to a different SKU or reset without a clean install :(

There's a program called BlackBird (http://getblackbird.net/) that claims to strip out all that telemetry. I have been running it for a while and while I haven't closely inspected traffic to validate the author's claims my bandwidth monitor widget doesn't have a lot to report, rarely rising above 1kb/sec unless I'm doing something.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#87

Post by dcow » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:22 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #24

duxup wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't monitor you or turn your light switch into a "service" that involves reoccurring payments if we don't use the internet to connect.... /s

And you also can't get a security update when someone figures out how to turn your lightbulbs into a botnet.

It's not either/or. Something can contact an update server but otherwise function entirely local.

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#88

Post by askvictor » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:23 AM UTC

castle-bravo wrote: post #10

Am I paraphrasing this correctly: > Microsoft-branded ARM microcontrollers running an embedded linux distribution. Microsoft rolls out security updates over Azure to reduce the risk of the device becoming part of a botnet. It sounds great.

It does sound great. My main concern is what happens when devices go out of support. Will MS keep on pushing updates indefinitely? Will there be a mechanism to take over the updating process if they decide that a certain set of devices are no longer supported?

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#89

Post by dcow » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:23 AM UTC

jamiek88 wrote: post #26

bsder wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you also can't get a security update when someone figures out how to turn your lightbulbs into a botnet.

If it's not on the internet it can't become part of a botnet. You lose functionality though, like being able to check doors etc. remotely. I trust Apple and I trust Homekit so I'm not too concerned with that.

Why can't you have both?

Re: Microsoft built its own custom Linux kernel for its new IoT service

#90

Post by oldcynic » Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 2:24 AM UTC

cstejerean wrote: post #80

oldcynic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pro edition ... Of course they collect data There's something fundamentally wrong with that to my mind, given how the Pro release of Windows has always been placed. I should not need to get an Enterprise release to be able to manage my own machine, restrict the phoning home, and control other basic features of my machine used in a professional context. I've no need of 101 features for managing 1,000 desktops and ne…

How much did you pay for Windows 10?

Same as with previous releases: an unknown, invisible, price because it generally comes with the machine. Choose Win x Pro if you want a more "corporate" laptop and get features to connect to the work network, Bitlocker and so on.

As far as I am aware the pitch has not changed - Pro is for for a business environment, Enterprise if you're in need of centralised management of an estate of machines. So no, Pro should not be taking liberties.

So now to be treated professionally I need to buy a laptop with Win 10 Pro and buy Win 10 again to reinstall it / upgrade it with Win 10 LTS? Can you even buy a single copy?