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I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

debuggerdotbreak.judahgabriel.com

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Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#191

Post by alain94040 »

jacquesm wrote: post #124
333c wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does your distaste for native apps extend to the desktop computer? Many HN users (myself included) dislike Electron-type apps because they feel slow and bloated. On my computer, native apps are much nicer, and feel like they fit in much better with the desktop environment. If you agree that native apps on the desktop are a good thing, than I think you would agree that, for smartphone users, native mobile apps are a g…

A native app to me is something that works independent of a network connection (with the exception of browsers and an email client, those are obviously pretty useless without and a browser is the 'gateway' to the online world), and without an interpreter. Most mobile phone apps aren't native by that definition, but let's stretch the definition and include binaries targeted at virtual machines. So native apps that I'm…

That's a strange definition. Native usually means that the application uses the platform's native APIs. The application could require a network, or not. I grant you that an app that should not need the network fails to work without a network connection probably means it's not a native app, and instead it's trying to execute on some server somewhere else (like a classic web page for instance).

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#192

Post by evv »

scarface74 wrote: post #155
Heliosmaster wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you use? (honest question)

If you want a native app, use native tools for each platform to create the best user experience.

This is effectively asking to double the size of the engineering team, or slow it down dramatically.

If I were a startup or small business, I'd rather ship a slightly slow-feeling app with my existing team of web developers who already know their tools, than to hire a bunch of native developers and somehow get them all on the same page.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#193

Post by evv »

JimDabell wrote: post #175
jacquesm wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care about the $99, I absolutely loathe native apps (because I don't have nor want a smartphone) and there is no way I'll ever buy a Mac to do iOS development. I do have some Apple hardware here but it runs Linux. Developers should be free to make their choices without being forced into some kind of eco-system, especially not with Apple itself focusing more on their gadgets and fashion items revenue streams t…

> I absolutely loathe native apps (because I don't have nor want a smartphone) Why does not having a smartphone make you loathe native apps?

I'm guessing that the OP is an advocate of open software and user freedom. Native apps are generally locked to a specific proprietary platform: Windows, macOS, Android, iOS.

As somebody in support of free software and individual control over our computers, I think web apps are the best class of apps we've seen yet. Thanks to the proliferation of web apps, desktop Linux is finally a viable platform.

Of course, I'd personally love to see the bloat of the browser disappear. In my dreams, we'd be able to run React Native applications on desktop. This is already possible with react-native-windows, but we still are waiting for stable support on macOS and Linux.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#194

Post by judah »

al2o3cr wrote: post #101
judah wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that apps (web or native) shouldn't have free access to e.g. your contacts without permission. But Apple goes beyond security and actually makes it impossible to build first-class experiences for iOS without paying $99/year + 33% in-app purchases. I think that's unfortunate. The free and opened web presents a challenge to Apple's app business. They have a perverse incentive to keep web apps second-class citize…

Lemme get this straight: you're mad that a company you don't want to pay $99/yr to won't build APIs so you can make money on their platform. So sad, lemme find my tiny violin.

Author here. I'm not making any money on their platform. I'm a non-profit, building a free app; this isn't about money.

I mentioned money in the post as a list of all barriers to moving a PWA to app store. $99/year + 33% in-app purchases (plus a $1000+ Mac to build, and probably one or more Mac minis for CI) is a barrier.

The bigger concern is Apple is lagging behind on web standards. I suspect the reason for that is because web apps undermine their app business; this is a replay of the 1990s when Microsoft lagged their browser behind web standards, knowing it undermined their business.

So, keep your violin, brother. :-) My post wasn't a complaint, but a documenting of the hurdles involved in moving a PWA to the app stores.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#195

Post by nkristoffersen »

wpietri wrote: post #137
masklinn wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they could afford a Mac and internet access, but they couldn't afford the extra $74? An old mac should be pretty cheap (the latest xcode runs on pre-2010 macs, even more so as they can be upgraded by hand — to a point) and if you're in SEA or eastern europe your internet connection is not $150/mo comcast. For instance in Romania high-speed internet is $15, but the average net income is $650~700 and minimum wage…

And I'd add that requiring a Mac is another unnecessary barrier to access. Things like Fog Creek's Glitch IDE are making it clear that it's possible to build things from any device with a browser.

And don't forget expo.io build process. I never have to open xcode anymore.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#196

Post by inferiorhuman »

judah wrote: post #10
inferiorhuman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some mobile platforms (read: iOS) are hostile to web apps. I'm OK with that. Web apps are clunkier and provide a worse experience. That Google makes this easier speaks to the sort of UX you get with Android.

I understand lock downs for security or user experience (e.g. disallow sites to auto-play video, etc). But restricting web apps to the point they're actually broken? No, that really sucks. Shame on Apple. And if we care about freedom and the opened web, we should not cheer on proprietary, closed platforms like app stores. We should want the opened web to win.

> I understand lock downs for security or user experience (e.g. disallow sites to auto-play video, etc). But restricting web apps to the point they're actually broken? No, that really sucks. Shame on Apple.

Shame on developers for cargo culting web apps over to various mobile platforms. Even on desktop platforms, non-native apps stick out like a sore thumb and generally work poorly (e.g. Slack). Granted I'm okay with my apps not doing autoplay video regardless of whether or not they're native.

> And if we care about freedom and the opened web, we should not cheer on proprietary, closed platforms like app stores. We should want the opened web to win.

How about the freedom to be rid of phishing apps and spyware? The "opened web" is not an all or nothing idea, and promoting web "apps" over proper native apps isn't a win.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#197

Post by inferiorhuman »

kop316 wrote: post #20
inferiorhuman wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some mobile platforms (read: iOS) are hostile to web apps. I'm OK with that. Web apps are clunkier and provide a worse experience. That Google makes this easier speaks to the sort of UX you get with Android.

I am not. That reinforces a iOS/Android ecosystem lock in. I personally want to see web apps succeed so it would be easier to move off of those platforms. If that happens, then I would foresee that web apps get first rate treatment and won't be "clunkier"

Web apps got "first rate" treatment with the original iPhone. Remember how that worked out?

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#198

Post by saagarjha »

george_perez wrote: post #174
masklinn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like what situation? To build an app at all he requires at least one computer, which is guaranteed to cost more than $99. He didn't blink at paying $25 to access MacInCloud. You're from eastern europe, south america or SEA, and $99 is a serious chunk of money. The latest Xcode requires sierra which runs on a late 2009 macbook (or even older using sierra patcher), and you can use that for other things than just publ…

Latest Xcode needs High Sierra, not Sierra.

There are ways to make Xcode 9.3 run on macOS Sierra, but I wouldn't recommend using them if you can avoid it.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#199

Post by saagarjha »

jsgo wrote: post #127
briandear wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're excluding people and organizations who want to maintain a single codebase. Not my problem. Don’t shit on my user experience because what YOU want. Remember, I don’t need your product, but you need customers. As far as ethical concerns about mandatory software purchases as a prerequisite— it’s not mandatory: you don’t have to develop for iOS. Make a website instead.

Is the person's app going to automatically end up on your device or did I miss something here? If Apple's review board feels the app is trash, it will be rejected as such. And the original poster wanted to just do a website instead, but they also wanted audio to be playable in the background (which makes sense when you're making a for all intents and purposes radio app).

> If Apple's review board feels the app is trash, it will be rejected as such

Apple is not as strict here as you're supposing. While Apple's review guidelines do say that they reserve the right to reject apps during the review process if they're ugly or don't work well, in reality this is almost never the case.

Re: I built a progressive web app and published it in three app stores

#200

Post by jbigelow76 »

Silhouette wrote: post #190
jbigelow76 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, since Apple also won't let anyone else supply a real browser to run on its devices, there's also no meaningful competition to force them to do better. Maybe monopoly/anti-competition regulations should be adapted so the same principles apply to platforms in this sort of controlling position. Apple only controls 12% of the smartphone market[1]. This is like asking that Porsche be regulated for not offer…

It seems more like saying Porsche can't dictate to garages that they can only supply Porsche spare parts and even then only if they become a Porsche dealership, despite someone else's competing part performing better.

Say Porsche implemented something in the cars firmware that did just that. Porsche in the car market, like Apple in the smart phone market, isn't even remotely close to monopoly, so regulation would be extremely heavy handed and unwarranted.

You as a developer could apply pressure by not supporting iOS. You said yourself in another response your app is very niche and has no competition, if you supported Android only your customer's would also have the opportunity to vote with their dollars and switch to Android.

Inconvenient browser selection on one platform is a problem the market can fix, the government isn't needed.

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