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Why Alcohol Is Good for You

wired.com

41–46 of 46 posts

Re: Why Alcohol Is Good for You

#41
post #7

Correlation does not strictly mean causation. Our statistics professor brought this example once, he explained it that people who don't drink (in a western society) have often problems with their health or are taking medication. Statistics could be often misleading. Another example was that people with bigger feet were more likely to be earn more money. Guess why?

Er, the whole point of the article is that the health benefits might not be caused by alcohol consumption, but rather by higher degrees of socialization that happen to be correlated with alcohol consumption.

Re: Why Alcohol Is Good for You

#42
post #41
post #7

Correlation does not strictly mean causation. Our statistics professor brought this example once, he explained it that people who don't drink (in a western society) have often problems with their health or are taking medication. Statistics could be often misleading. Another example was that people with bigger feet were more likely to be earn more money. Guess why?

Er, the whole point of the article is that the health benefits might not be caused by alcohol consumption, but rather by higher degrees of socialization that happen to be correlated with alcohol consumption.

My point is that you can't explain a statistic with one cause. Most of the time there are many. Some of them we know, some of them not.

Re: Why Alcohol Is Good for You

#43
post #14

"But here’s the really weird data point: Heavy drinkers also live longer than abstainers." Really? Really? I don't believe it. I'd like to look more closely at the data that supports this. And it depends on the definition of "heavy" drinking. If it's a regular one glass a day, sure. If it's a bottle a gin a couple of times a week I would beg to differ. Alcohol is insanely destructive. Whilst no doubt this study is pi…

> It's mental that for £20 I can pop into any off-licence, corner shop or supermarket in the land and buy enough alcohol to literally kill myself If you're concerned about that, boy have you got a lot of other things to start being concerned about. You can kill yourself with pennies worth of water, or £2 of petrol and a match, or jump off a building, or... My point of course being that while it might be a little unse…

You are sort of right. However people are not encouraged to drink petrol, whereas we are bombarded with advertising messages about the glamour and sophistication of alcohol.

I was sort of going off on a tangent, and playing devil's advocate really. The drugs legalisation debate is picking up steam in the US and Mexico (I wish it would in the UK) and I was just having a bit of a rant - I think it's incredibly hypocritical that alcohol is legal, whilst pot - demonstrably less damaging - is outlawed.

Re: Why Alcohol Is Good for You

#44
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, it's not just correlation that alcohol may be good for you. There's growing evidence that, among other things, alcohol boosts your HDL (good) cholesterol. For one controlled study see: http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/102/19/2347 The conclusion from the controlled study? "Alcohol intake increases HDL-C in a dose-dependent fashion, associated with and possibly caused by an increase in the TR of…

But now we are several steps removed from the outcome of interest. We can postulate the following: EtOH -> higher HDL -> increased reverse cholesterol transport (or another HDL function) -> reduced risk of cardiovascular disease. But there is a problem here. While higher HDL epidemiologically correlates with reduced CVD, the only clinical trial of a drug that purely raises HDL showed increased mortality. Now, the tri…

You make very good points, and I think it's far from proven that alcohol actually is good for you or that raising HDL by itself is a good idea (in fact, there are some populations with low HDL but very low CVD). Probably another overlooked factor is the size of the HDL particles. Or it could be, as some people argue, that HDL is just a marker and so affecting HDL directly won't change your health.

Torcetrapib is complicated as a CETP inhibitor. The drug didn't just inhibit the conversion of HDL to LDL (which means it didn't just boost HDL, but it also lowered LDL), it also inhibits reverse cholesterol transport (where CETP is involved). Patients on torcetrapib had weird distortions in a number of blood values, increased blood pressure, and other effects. Which was the cause of increased mortality? It's too early to know, although it's pretty clear that CETP inhibitors are a bad idea.

My point was more that we have more than just correlations that people who drink alcohol have lower mortality and cardiovascular risk (observational studies often turn out to be misleading), we also have some somewhat plausible mechanisms for why this would be the case. It'll definitely be a long while before we can actually know whether or not alcohol has net positive or negative affects.

Re: Why Alcohol Is Good for You

#45
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's mental that for £20 I can pop into any off-licence, corner shop or supermarket in the land and buy enough alcohol to literally kill myself If you're concerned about that, boy have you got a lot of other things to start being concerned about. You can kill yourself with pennies worth of water, or £2 of petrol and a match, or jump off a building, or... My point of course being that while it might be a little unse…

You are sort of right. However people are not encouraged to drink petrol, whereas we are bombarded with advertising messages about the glamour and sophistication of alcohol. I was sort of going off on a tangent, and playing devil's advocate really. The drugs legalisation debate is picking up steam in the US and Mexico (I wish it would in the UK) and I was just having a bit of a rant - I think it's incredibly hypocrit…

> I think it's incredibly hypocritical that alcohol is legal, whilst pot - demonstrably less damaging - is outlawed.

Not necessarily; IIRC the reason pot is not legal is (or was) because there was not sufficient scientific evidence it wasn't about to pull a Thalidomide.

There are plenty of things that are perfectly healthy that are illegal; that is because we haven't proven they are perfectly healthy yet.

Re: Why Alcohol Is Good for You

#46
post #11
post #10

Complete abstinence from alcohol is also correlated with lower education level and poverty. People with less certainty and control over their lives are more likely to distrust alcohol, justifiably -- the risk that comes with it is more serious for them.

In which part of the world is it correlated?

The U.S., especially the southeast.
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