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Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

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Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#81

There's a much simpler solution to the overbooking problem: eliminate the fraud exemption that airlines currently enjoy, allowing them to sell the same seat twice. The downside is that, if airlines are unable to resell unused seats, more flights will fly partially empty, reducing overall efficiency of the industry. But if they offer standby "tickets" at steep discounts (instead of making every ticket a probabilistic…

>"The downside is that, if airlines are unable to resell unused seats, more flights will fly partially empty, reducing overall efficiency of the industry"

You are talking about load factor and its not so much an issue any more. See:

http://atwonline.com/airline-traffic/top-30-airlines-passeng...

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#82
post #40
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Airlines are very much currently burdened with a legacy that was cemented in sometime in the 50's." Personally, I find this common observation off base. Most airlines have pushed the legacy TPF layer into a sort of nosql data store. Both Sabre and Amadeus have been able to pull the business logic out of TPF. Any sort of lagging technical progress seems more related to either thin margins, or the complexity you point…

Is the legacy only technical? I was speaking of something far broader than just the database they're using at the heart of something. Our theories of place and travel are slowly changing due to new technical capability. Some of the lag is due to old theories embedded in old technology. But I think a lot of it is embedded in habit, custom, protocol, and business model. And in plain old not knowing. I expect we'll thra…

You're correct. There is legacy thinking at airlines and travel companies. It is more of a barrier than any tech debt.

I spend more time fighting "this is how we've always done it" than I spend fighting legacy systems.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#83
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"These days, it's not the legacy. It is mostly regulation pushed by Chuck Schume" The OPs comment was that the airlines were burdened by legacy from the 1950s. Mr Schumer's legislation is quite recent. Additionally the legislation "Passenger Bill of Rights" is quite reasonable - let your customers off the plane after 3 hours of delay. It's pretty easy to avoid that penalty. It's also worth pointing out that legislat…

So-called "Passenger Bill of Rights" takes away options from passengers[1]. "We found that for every minute of tarmac time being saved there is, on average, a three-minute increase in the total passenger delay," said Vikrant Vaze, an assistant professor at Dartmouth's Thayer School of Engineering who co-authored the study. Adopted in 2010, the Transportation Department rule requires that passengers be allowed to depl…

Just FYI, quoting like this makes it impossible to read on mobile. Better to wrap in asterisks.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#84
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You are simply enabling airlines to continue this unethical practice Don't project your morals onto the rest of us. As a frequent flyer who likes to travel I love this practice. It means lower prices overall and it gives me the opportunity to fly for free somewhere else later if I volunteer out. With the switch to real cash compensation on some airlines, I can even make money if I don't feel like using it to fly. I…

>"Don't project your morals onto the rest of us" I'm not projecting "my" morals onto anybody. Intentionally overbooking and knowing full well that you are going to bring inconvenience and stress to people is just plain fucked up. That's not really a grey area. If you bought a ticket to a movie and then were asked to leave the theater before the movie started in order to make room for someone else who bought a ticket…

There's a price for which I'd be delighted to be kicked out of a movie or off a flight.

For a movie, it might be only $50. For a flight, it could range from $1000 on up, but it's a pretty rare flight that I wouldn't give up my seat for $15,000 and rebooking. I suspect it's even more rare that no one on a flight would take $15K plus rebook.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#85
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The value of Uber isn't the app, it's the network of drivers/riders.

the value of Uber is convenience. flailing your arms on a street corner hoping that some vacant taxi will notice you is both silly and inefficient. at any one time there are tons of people needing taxis and tons of empty taxis burning fuel unable to find fares. if there was an app that allowed you to tap a button and have taxi arrive to pick you up, it's likely Uber would not be where it is today.

This is actually an interesting idea. What if the city of SF created an Uber/Lyft-like app, and required that all registered taxis be listed on it and have the driver app running and active on their phone while on duty? Obviously taxis could still accept manual street-side hails and line up in hotel taxi lines if/when they want to. But they otherwise could accept fares on the app, and riders could still pay seamlessly through the app, and have the option to rate drivers and submit feedback.

They wouldn't be able to charge the rock-bottom prices Uber and Lyft do in order to gain market share, of course. But with Uber (and to a much smaller extent Lyft) suffering some backlash wrt their business practices and tendency to increase traffic congestion, such an app might have a chance at pulling at least some market share back toward traditional taxis.

If I could order a taxi using an Uber/Lyft-like experience[0], and get decent wait times, I wouldn't mind spending more in order to support a local alternative, if that local alternative was actually showing signs that it wanted to innovate and adopt a customer-first attitude.

[0] Yes, I know Uber had UberTAXI for a while, but in practice the wait times were huge and most of the times I checked the option, it said there were no taxis available at all. Obviously Uber had little incentive to make the taxi part of their service attractive, and plenty of incentive to make it unattractive, so I don't really blame the taxi services themselves for this deficiency.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#86
I'd often be perfectly happy to take earlier or later flights on the same day, and potentially even change routing (OAK vs. SFO, or even something crazier like MIA vs. FLL). Wouldn't even necessarily need to offer cash; frequent flyer miles or upgrade to C or F or even lounge access while waiting would be fine.

Rare other times, I'd probably want >$5-10k to change my flight (missing a speaking slot at a conference or a customer meeting or something when booked close).

Being able to surface customer preferences like this seems valuable. I've had Alaska/Virgin call to offer compensation to change (or cancel) flights before, either due to overbooking or downgauging, and I've had international flights change and offer free rebook/cancel as a result, but nothing has really been technically efficient or easy to use yet.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#87
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won’t disagree about the comfort but man they got you. Should never accept a certificate, especially that low for first class. Next time just hold out. I’ve had it happen twice now and both times were close to 1k in certs.

It wouldn't surprise me if Volantio or airlines automatically checked to see how often someone flies and tries to lowball them.

It depends. It seems like the goal here is to make the airlines money while still making it seem to the passenger like they've gotten a decent deal. A less frequent traveler who doesn't know that $300 is a low-ball offer might be perfectly satisfied with that, even while a more frequent traveler would laugh at such an offer.

There's no objective measure of the feeling of "getting a good deal". It's entirely subjective and depends on what the customer values, as well as how much information the customer has about similar transactions. Obviously if the customer later gains new information that suggests they could have gotten a much better deal, that's a negative, but part of figuring out that optimum deal point is figuring out the likelihood of that, as well.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#88
post #46

There's already a well-proven technique for price discovery: it's called a _market_. But because there's no real market for airplane tickets--the airlines basically forbid secondary transactions--we're forced into a world of centralized planning, and by an entity that's fairly incompetent at that. This entire thing would be solved if plane tickets could be bought and sold in some sort of marketplace. The airlines cou…

This assumes a market where participants are all acting in good faith. In any marketplace for a good like this, you'll end up with ticket scalpers. I suspect any cost savings will be eaten up by the premium people would have to pay to scalpers who buy up ticket stock early and wait to sell them closer to the flight date. You end up with a lot of value being eaten up by predatory third parties who have no interest in getting on planes themselves.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#89
post #62
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I'd call it "failed commercially at solving booking". Google stopped their work on creating a booking system after the acquisition since they were never interested in getting into booking.

They had one small airline (Cape Air) using it for a long time, so I don't quite get your point. It was built, but almost nobody bought it. Google did squash it roughly 2 years after buying ITA, but it was pretty much dead anyway.

I have to admit I don't know this stuff first hand, but based on what I heard, it took quite a while for ITA to be fully "absorbed" into Google, during which time they didn't change much. I also heard that their first customer was more of a pilot or development partner. Also, from what I know about the airline industry, they change very very slowly and it'd take a long time from the time airlines are approached to the time things are actually in production, especially for something this critical.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#90
post #89
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had one small airline (Cape Air) using it for a long time, so I don't quite get your point. It was built, but almost nobody bought it. Google did squash it roughly 2 years after buying ITA, but it was pretty much dead anyway.

I have to admit I don't know this stuff first hand, but based on what I heard, it took quite a while for ITA to be fully "absorbed" into Google, during which time they didn't change much. I also heard that their first customer was more of a pilot or development partner. Also, from what I know about the airline industry, they change very very slowly and it'd take a long time from the time airlines are approached to th…

That's fair. I'm not trying to portray ITA as a failure. Quite the opposite. Trying to say even an elite group of genius talent can't turn the ship quickly. That it's more about legacy thinking than it is about legacy tech.

Airlines and OTA companies could be 10x more innovative with the tech they have now. TPF and other old tech is NOT the barrier.

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