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Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

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Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#11

Post by FLUX-YOU »

dawnerd wrote: post #9
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering I don't fly much, not really. 787 vs. 737 is also worlds apart in terms of comfort (both flights were first class). The certificate they give you is valid for a year.

I won’t disagree about the comfort but man they got you. Should never accept a certificate, especially that low for first class. Next time just hold out. I’ve had it happen twice now and both times were close to 1k in certs.

It wouldn't surprise me if Volantio or airlines automatically checked to see how often someone flies and tries to lowball them.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#12

Post by wpietri »

A good start, but I think this could be taken much farther.

If we look back 20+ years, we built up very strong rituals around scheduling because we couldn't make the system work any other way. But in-person plans have become much more dynamic as we become better connected. Air travel is still very much in the old world there: we book far in advance, slotting ourselves into fixed-schedule, fixed-capacity options, even though we are often much more flexible.

For example, every August I go back for a big camping trip with extended family. I could fly from a few different airports into a few different cities over a few days. Since working remotely for a day or two isn't a problem, the return's even more flexible. Why do I have to buy a specific down-to-the-minute ticket now if I want a good price?

I'd be happy to commit now, and then let the airlines (or airlines negotiating automatically with my booking agent) work out exactly when I'm going. They could use much more data to maximize efficiency, giving us lower total prices.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#13

Post by nanis »

The title is a polite way of putting it. In reality, what they are backing is a startup which claims that the data they gather will allow airlines to gobble all consumer surplus by being able to offer compensation equal to the reservation price of the customer: I.e., the compensation that leaves the passenger indifferent between flying on this flight vs giving up their seat.

I am going to claim that the airlines backing this and the investors of the startup have not studied Ultimatum Games[1]:

    One of the most debated results in experimental
    economics comes from studies of the so-called
    “ultimatum” game. In this game, one player (the
    “proposer”) goes first and offers a split of a pie
    of given size. The second player chooses whether to
    accept or reject. If the second player rejects, both
    get noting. If he accepts, they split the pie as was
    proposed. The ultimatum game has a unique subgame
    perfect equilibrium where the proposer gets
    (essentially) the whole pie. It also has many other
    Nash equilibria, where the proposer offers a more
    generous split, fearing an aggressive offer will be
    rejected.

    The experimental results are in stark contrast to
    the backward induction solution.
[1]: https://web.stanford.edu/~jdlevin/Econ%20286/Experimental.pd...

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#14

Post by acqq »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that airlines wouldn't/couldn't build this functionality themselves. Does anyone here have insight into the 'buy vs. build' decision that any of these airlines went through in adopting this company's services?

Here the possibility to say “not our fault, it’s this other company that made an error” when something goes wrong also has some significance.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#15

Post by vannevar »

There's a much simpler solution to the overbooking problem: eliminate the fraud exemption that airlines currently enjoy, allowing them to sell the same seat twice.

The downside is that, if airlines are unable to resell unused seats, more flights will fly partially empty, reducing overall efficiency of the industry. But if they offer standby "tickets" at steep discounts (instead of making every ticket a probabilistic standby seat), that problem would solve itself.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#17

Post by a13n »

leeoniya wrote: post #8
rahimnathwani wrote: post #5

I'm surprised that airlines wouldn't/couldn't build this functionality themselves. Does anyone here have insight into the 'buy vs. build' decision that any of these airlines went through in adopting this company's services?

i've always had the same question about Uber (re the convenience of using an app to hail and pay)

The value of Uber isn't the app, it's the network of drivers/riders.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#18

Post by cybrjoe »

vannevar wrote: post #15

There's a much simpler solution to the overbooking problem: eliminate the fraud exemption that airlines currently enjoy, allowing them to sell the same seat twice. The downside is that, if airlines are unable to resell unused seats, more flights will fly partially empty, reducing overall efficiency of the industry. But if they offer standby "tickets" at steep discounts (instead of making every ticket a probabilistic…

Don't all airlines already sell standby tickets? I'm guessing the demand on the average flight isn't enough to cover the chance someone won't show.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#19

Post by leeoniya »

a13n wrote: post #17
leeoniya wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i've always had the same question about Uber (re the convenience of using an app to hail and pay)

The value of Uber isn't the app, it's the network of drivers/riders.

the value of Uber is convenience.

flailing your arms on a street corner hoping that some vacant taxi will notice you is both silly and inefficient. at any one time there are tons of people needing taxis and tons of empty taxis burning fuel unable to find fares. if there was an app that allowed you to tap a button and have taxi arrive to pick you up, it's likely Uber would not be where it is today.

Re: Airlines Are Backing Volantio (YC W09), a Startup That Could Fix Overbooking

#20

Post by jorvi »

wpietri wrote: post #12

A good start, but I think this could be taken much farther. If we look back 20+ years, we built up very strong rituals around scheduling because we couldn't make the system work any other way. But in-person plans have become much more dynamic as we become better connected. Air travel is still very much in the old world there: we book far in advance, slotting ourselves into fixed-schedule, fixed-capacity options, even…

Tickets should also be liberated from being person-bound. If I have to cancel a NL-CHN trip a week in advance, I lose most (if not all) of the money spent on it, and any recoups are in the form of vouchers. And the airline still resells the seat! However, if I could just sell the ticket on the secondary market, I’d recoup most of my costs.
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