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China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

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Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#171

Post by smallnamespace »

mistermann wrote: post #169
dunpeal wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You claim: > The objective is not "control" of the tech sector as the article pretends, it is just greater collaboration. From the article: > This quasi-nationalization applies to China's startup scene, too. One recent report found that 60 percent of Chinese unicorns have either direct or indirect investment from the BATs. China's venture-capital sector is dominated not by traditional tech dealmakers but by the state…

> These stakes give the Chinese government control over these startups. Does it? Any more than it already has, what with China being communist and all. I don't see why the general ideas /u/reeedom discusses can't be true, and can't turn out to in fact be a perfectly workable way to successfully run an economy. This isn't to say it's not risky and scary, with so much power in the state, all it takes is one tyrant to c…

> but this is something altogether different than believing it is impossible to govern a society successfully in this form, for a very long period of time.

The West seems to have forgotten its own political history, which was based on the divine right of kings far longer than the current populist democratic consensus, which only has a 100-year history.

As for China——well, it's had something like 2500+ years of cycling between Imperial dynasties. China (along with India) was the world's pre-eminent economic power for the majority of that period.

The hubris of the West is that anything it does necessarily represents a permanent form of progress, rather than a single swing of the pendulum. That's not to say that societies that are more rooted in common law and popular representation aren't desirable, but blithely assuming that the 'end of history' has arrived is a bit silly.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#172

Post by pm90 »

coldacid wrote: post #152
pm90 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where will it move to? Tech manufacturing is till pretty labor intensive, at least for the consumer electronics that I believe we are talking about. India probably has better IP laws on paper, but they're hardly ever enforced. The only real alternative seems to be that we reach such a level of automation that these factories can be viable in the West. Still, China's integration into the supply chain of global manufac…

Maybe we as consumers in the west just need to suck up the higher costs for our tech stuff to be manufactured back here in the Americas and Europe. Sure it won't be pleasant for our wallets, but it'd be worth it.

Actually the hollowing out of the middle class means that American consumers are more price sensitive than they would be if they had larger incomes...

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#173

Post by jquery »

jlarocco wrote: post #128
TangoTrotFox wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's a severe misrepresentation of China. They're communist in name, but extremely capitalist in practice. Jack Ma is the man behind Alibaba and now one of the richest people alive, let alone Chinese alive. Check out his background [1]. In my opinion, the main difference between China and the US is nationalism. And that's also what I think that slogan is indicative of. It also, I think, explains their gover…

> In my opinion, the main difference between China and the US is nationalism. And that's also what I think that slogan is indicative of. It also, I think, explains their government actions. Supporting their companies is not about nationalizing them, which implies a motivation of state driven control, but growing and improving Chinese companies on the national scene. I've noticed that a few times recently when compari…

> cargo cult religion

Unfairly dismissive of the deep philosophy involved in the founding of this country. There are many solid underpinnings of American individualism, whether you agree the principles or not.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#174

Post by pm90 »

justicezyx wrote: post #142
pm90 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really a good comparison. The US has its problems and rising inequality has been a huge one for sure. But the biggest strength of the US has been its institutions and a society and economy that is based on laws. The independent Universities, Judiciary etc. are all extremely hard to get it right and the US has managed to do so (mostly; there are still many many problems e.g. school-prison pipeline, unequal…

I am puzzled by the reasoning. If your claimed good mechanism cannot reach a good outcome, what's the use or value of them. Op said, AFAIK, is that China is doing seemingly bad thing, but if the outcome is not worse than others doing, what's the ground of criticizing? You cannot argue that something should be citicized just because itself not from their effects...

You can shoot yourself in the head today. You’re going to die anyways. Why do you continue to live? It’s the same outcome right?

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#175

Post by [deleted] »

intrasight wrote: post #149
pm90 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't really a good comparison. The US has its problems and rising inequality has been a huge one for sure. But the biggest strength of the US has been its institutions and a society and economy that is based on laws. The independent Universities, Judiciary etc. are all extremely hard to get it right and the US has managed to do so (mostly; there are still many many problems e.g. school-prison pipeline, unequal…

And in addition to the rule of law, the US gives it citizens the opportunity to rise above their situation (some would use the term "class"). There are few countries where this is the case. In most countries, the state determines your fate.

[deleted]

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#176

Post by 3242342sadf »

adrianN wrote: post #154
qweqw123 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arent's you romanticizing the US a bit much? the country was built by slaves. "the US will self-select for the ambitious and the inspired and those who desire freedom" this is just hogwash

Are there any countries that don't have a bloddy past?

You aren't refuting his point. His point was that OP was romanticizing his own country.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#177

Post by pm90 »

arcticbull wrote: post #147
pm90 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced labor camps still exist in China, to this day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai

What do you call a US prison farm? [1] Even Wikipedia acknowledges that "the concepts of prison farm and labor camp overlap." Labor camps are even explicitly permitted by the 13th amendment "... which ended slavery, specifically perpetuated the concept of penal servitude – i.e., unfree labor as a punishment for a crime." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_farm

There is a difference between political prisoners and criminals. There is a rule of law in the US which means you cannot arbitrarily imprison anyone; there is due process and a trial. That is missing from the Chinese Judicial System which makes it much more akin to Slave Labor.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#178

Post by golergka »

adrianN wrote: post #160
golergka wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was bad exactly because it was centralized. De-centralized systems like free market capitalist economy are more resilient by nature.

That's the theory at least.

That's also the practice, as history of the last couple of centuries abundantly shows.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#179

Post by 3242342sadf »

alehul wrote: post #77
qweqw123 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arent's you romanticizing the US a bit much? the country was built by slaves. "the US will self-select for the ambitious and the inspired and those who desire freedom" this is just hogwash

Sorry if you found it offensive. I'm definitely romanticizing the U.S. quite a bit. At the same time, that romanticization is inspiring (at least to me) and largely true today when you compare us to countries like China, where you have much less control over your future. Also, moving to a country that provides greater freedom and opportunity at the cost of less of a social net and lower taxes will almost definitely s…

"moving to a country that provides greater freedom and opportunity at the cost of less of a social net and lower taxes will almost definitely self-select for the ambitious"

That's flawed logic.

1. There is no study that stated less social net and lower taxes will definitely self-select for the ambitious. 2. US does not have the lowest tax in the world.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#180

Post by 3242342sadf »

i_am_nomad wrote: post #96
qweqw123 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

arent's you romanticizing the US a bit much? the country was built by slaves. "the US will self-select for the ambitious and the inspired and those who desire freedom" this is just hogwash

The vast majority of physical and intellectual labor that “built” the United States was performed by free men. I’m not saying there wasn’t slavery, but your assertion is absurd.

His assertion is absurd as much as OP's.
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