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China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

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Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#141

Post by iguy »

crdoconnor wrote: post #125
detritus wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'The English' were responsible, or 'Protestant Irish Landowners'? Seems like a key detail if you're going to attribute genocide to the English.

The English, who were ruling Ireland at the time, who gave most of that land to absentee landlords, justified perpetuating the famine by invoking the divine right of the free market: "Laissez-faire, the reigning economic orthodoxy of the day, held that there should be as little government interference with the economy as possible. Under this doctrine, stopping the export of Irish grain was an unacceptable policy alte…

Is there anything analogous to potato-driven growth & potato blight in Ukraine?

I thought the two stories were completely different because of this. Ireland had a spectacular mono-crop boom, followed by a crash, and I think it's uncontroversial that this was triggered by a disease, whatever the view of the response. I don't know of any similar boom in the Ukraine prior to the famine, nor any trigger besides what the guys with guns in Moscow wanted done.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#142

Post by justicezyx »

pm90 wrote: post #136
collyw wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where your fate is 'centrally planned' by how impressive your maths skills are Is it better than a fate that is generally determined by how rich your parents are? I give you that there are more options in the States, but this plays a huge role. Social mobility has been declining in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_... Not saying I prefer the Chinese model, but most people prefer t…

This isn't really a good comparison. The US has its problems and rising inequality has been a huge one for sure. But the biggest strength of the US has been its institutions and a society and economy that is based on laws. The independent Universities, Judiciary etc. are all extremely hard to get it right and the US has managed to do so (mostly; there are still many many problems e.g. school-prison pipeline, unequal…

I am puzzled by the reasoning.

If your claimed good mechanism cannot reach a good outcome, what's the use or value of them.

Op said, AFAIK, is that China is doing seemingly bad thing, but if the outcome is not worse than others doing, what's the ground of criticizing?

You cannot argue that something should be citicized just because itself not from their effects...

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#143

Post by justicezyx »

TangoTrotFox wrote: post #114
alehul wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with parents who experienced the USSR, this is what really terrifies me about China's rise, and the reason I can't say I'm against a trade war if it hinders them more than us. Imagine a world in which China holds more control... a country with little legal or social respect for individualism, where your fate is 'centrally planned' by how impressive your maths skills are. By contrast, ~30% of American billi…

I think that's a severe misrepresentation of China. They're communist in name, but extremely capitalist in practice. Jack Ma is the man behind Alibaba and now one of the richest people alive, let alone Chinese alive. Check out his background [1]. In my opinion, the main difference between China and the US is nationalism. And that's also what I think that slogan is indicative of. It also, I think, explains their gover…

Why down vote this?

Everything here afaik is having fact basis.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#144

Post by kchoudhu »

pm90 wrote: post #123
watertom wrote: post #118

All tech companies need to re-think manufacturing in China, it was always a risky proposition, but not, you'll really be handing your IP over to the Chinese Government, and they'll be collecting IP from every company. It's time for tech manufacturing to move.

Where will it move to? Tech manufacturing is till pretty labor intensive, at least for the consumer electronics that I believe we are talking about. India probably has better IP laws on paper, but they're hardly ever enforced. The only real alternative seems to be that we reach such a level of automation that these factories can be viable in the West. Still, China's integration into the supply chain of global manufac…

Come to South Asia -- Bangladesh, India, Pakistan. Weak institutions and governments concerned solely with infighting mean that your IP is probably safe from marauding governments.

All your clothes are already made there, why not your electronics?

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#147

Post by arcticbull »

pm90 wrote: post #137
alehul wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if you found it offensive. I'm definitely romanticizing the U.S. quite a bit. At the same time, that romanticization is inspiring (at least to me) and largely true today when you compare us to countries like China, where you have much less control over your future. Also, moving to a country that provides greater freedom and opportunity at the cost of less of a social net and lower taxes will almost definitely s…

Forced labor camps still exist in China, to this day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laogai

What do you call a US prison farm? [1] Even Wikipedia acknowledges that "the concepts of prison farm and labor camp overlap." Labor camps are even explicitly permitted by the 13th amendment "... which ended slavery, specifically perpetuated the concept of penal servitude – i.e., unfree labor as a punishment for a crime."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_farm

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#148

Post by sgroppino »

iguy wrote: post #113
throwaway414 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By contrast, ~30% of > American billionaires > are dropouts. How is it a contrast when more than ~50% of Chinese billionaires are dropouts? [1] Added to that, of the 78 self-made women billionaires, 49 of them are from China. [2] 1. http://en.yibada.com/articles/195121/20170220/new-hurun-list... 2. http://www.scmp.com/business/china-business/article/2117158/...

The claim about American dropouts is about success not needing the blessing of the establishment. How many of those billionaires aren't Party members?

Some people may think of Wall Street as "the establishment", too.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#149

Post by intrasight »

pm90 wrote: post #136
collyw wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where your fate is 'centrally planned' by how impressive your maths skills are Is it better than a fate that is generally determined by how rich your parents are? I give you that there are more options in the States, but this plays a huge role. Social mobility has been declining in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socioeconomic_mobility_in_the_... Not saying I prefer the Chinese model, but most people prefer t…

This isn't really a good comparison. The US has its problems and rising inequality has been a huge one for sure. But the biggest strength of the US has been its institutions and a society and economy that is based on laws. The independent Universities, Judiciary etc. are all extremely hard to get it right and the US has managed to do so (mostly; there are still many many problems e.g. school-prison pipeline, unequal…

And in addition to the rule of law, the US gives it citizens the opportunity to rise above their situation (some would use the term "class"). There are few countries where this is the case. In most countries, the state determines your fate.

Re: China Is Nationalizing Its Tech Sector

#150

Post by baybal2 »

sho wrote: post #84
petra wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon vs Alibaba - to simplify, this game will be won by the best supply chain, And sure Amazon leads by far. But what happens when the "one belt one road" railroad is finished ? Will Alibaba get a preferential treatment ? And if so, could Amazon handle that ?

The Amazon supply chain is fantastic indeed. And the end-user experience can be astounding. I'm in Singapore and am thinking about ordering a standing desk from the USA. Delivery is free in 7-9 days. The desk cost $200. At any other company the delivery would be $200. The local cost is much more. How can anyone compete with that? And in-country, tonight at exactly 20:45 I placed an order for a tripod and about 50kg o…

>The Amazon supply chain is fantastic indeed. And the end-user experience can be astounding.

>Amazon vs Alibaba - to simplify, this game will be won by the best supply chain, And sure Amazon leads by far.

Amazons supply chain begins in China. Alibaba's supply chain begins in China.

The only issue here is that Amazon pays quite a lot to warehouse their own stuff in states and Alibaba don't (after discovering the obvious fact that doing that in America is not as cheap as in China)

They have totally lost appetite for American market after spending years trying. They don't want to be a global company now. There was a period in Alibaba's history when they thought "we are just few minute away from swatting Amazon like a fly," they hired tons for expensive, but useless American execs, spent tons on marketing, spent ton on logistics ("fulfillment by aliexpress"), only to find out that simply nobody bothers to do anything with them even when they are ready to sell same widgets for half the price on same terms as Amazon.

Their problem is that they are INVISIBLE to an American customer, and this will not change for many years -- this is what is called a "Toyota phenomenon" in action.

During Toyota's early years in US market, everybody was puzzled: why heck they have such bad rep and sales when everybody prize their cars - costs 1/3 of GM garbage, has double the fuel efficiency, virtually unbreakable vs half the vehicle price in maintenance over its lifetime.

Only when Toyota steamrolled competitors on quality on a level beyond comparison, and dispelled the myth of "Toyota - poor man's car" they took off. GM managed to set much of the population into a mode of thinking where "if you buy a Japanese car, you admit that you began to realize that GM was totally fleecing you all those years" and "you have the money to driver the big, bad, American car"

I worked for 2 years for an sourcing company that worked for Amazon and a number top tier US retailers, all of above is consistent with my experience working with Amazon guys.

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