Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#131

Post by endisukaj » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:08 PM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #70

Someone1234 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this exactly how iOS works currently? You literally cannot develop for it without signing an Apple contract (even non-App store apps require a user account/agreement).

And with rumours of Apple moving to ARM chips for their laptops, they could well try to take the opportunity to lock out unsigned code entirely... Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform. And if Microsoft had succeeded in the mobile/tablet space, they'd be doing exactly the same...

Isn't that counter-productive though? I'll just take my business elsewhere and develop for competing environments.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#132

Post by alasdair_ » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:09 PM UTC

intopieces wrote: post #57

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

>How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? I'm not sure this is an accurate representation of Apple's case. First, it seems like they are suing for trademark infringement, not for copyright infringement. Second, the repair shop owner is by no stretch of the imagination the end user of this product. Wikipedia gives this definition of en…

> I think a reasonable step that this guy should have to take is to explicitly state, "I am not an authorized Apple repair technician and these parts are not guaranteed to be genuine Apple parts. They do not bear an Apple warranty and are not eligible for support by Authorized Apple Technicians."

Okay. So my mechanic needs to state that for every single manufacturer of every single component that he may potentially use to fix my car, right down to the level of individual capacitors on individual circuitboards, he is not an authorized technician for that item? That seems unduly onerous.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#133

Post by alasdair_ » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #70

Someone1234 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this exactly how iOS works currently? You literally cannot develop for it without signing an Apple contract (even non-App store apps require a user account/agreement).

And with rumours of Apple moving to ARM chips for their laptops, they could well try to take the opportunity to lock out unsigned code entirely... Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform. And if Microsoft had succeeded in the mobile/tablet space, they'd be doing exactly the same...

>Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform.

Hopefully this was sarcasm, since this is literally what is required right now to develop for iOS - you need a Mac (windows is not allowed) and a $99 developer account.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#134

Post by Johnny555 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:13 PM UTC

nugi wrote: post #73

Johnny555 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

buying a used gas-burning car is actually less detrimental to the environment than buying a new EV I think that's only true if that gas burning car was going to be destroyed if you didn't buy it. Someone will buy it, maybe someone that's replacing their older less efficient car. And by buying the more expensive EV, your demand is helping to increase volume and lower costs of EV's.

No, even driving 200miles a day, for 15 years in a 1978 suburban with bad rings is less poluting than producing a single eCar.

Source?

https://www.ucsusa.org/clean-vehicles/electric-vehicles/life...

Manufacturing a mid-sized EV with an 84-mile range results in about 15 percent more emissions than manufacturing an equivalent gasoline vehicle. For larger, longer-range EVs that travel more than 250 miles per charge, the manufacturing emissions can be as much as 68 percent higher.

These differences change as soon as the cars are driven. EVs are powered by electricity, which is generally a cleaner energy source than gasoline. Battery electric cars make up for their higher manufacturing emissions within eighteen months of driving—shorter range models can offset the extra emissions within 6 months—and continue to outperform gasoline cars until the end of their lives.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#135

Post by lisper » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:14 PM UTC

Techowl wrote: post #109

eesmith wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Ford™ we care about our brand. We want people who bought a Ford™ car to have the best experience we prepared for them. Other fuels may contain additives which make your Ford™ engine seem imperfect. A few misguided people are tempted by the siren call of the independent fuel suppliers to use something other than the Ford™ fuel specially made for your needs. When things go wrong, they spread rumors that Ford™ vehicl…

Wouldn't car parts be a much more accurate analogy, though? Apple isn't suing anyone for not using Apple-branded electricity to power their phone.

No, but they are making it very difficult for anyone to use, for example, non-Apple-branded cloud storage. And they are making it nearly impossible for anyone to use non-Apple-approved apps.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#136

Post by manmal » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:16 PM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #70

Someone1234 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this exactly how iOS works currently? You literally cannot develop for it without signing an Apple contract (even non-App store apps require a user account/agreement).

And with rumours of Apple moving to ARM chips for their laptops, they could well try to take the opportunity to lock out unsigned code entirely... Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform. And if Microsoft had succeeded in the mobile/tablet space, they'd be doing exactly the same...

My MB Pro cost 2.5k, and I use it primarily to develop for iOS, so there you have your expensive dev kit.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#137

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:17 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #90

geezerjay wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. It's quite obvious that, to put it mildly, that's wishful thinking inspired by a heavily rose-tainted view of Apple. Meanwhile, Apple is known for their extreme price gouging complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products, let alone upgrade them to a usable state.

> complemented with extreme actions to stop even their very own customers from even repairing their broken products Like what kind of actions? I can go to ifixit.com right now, order parts for my iPhone, order tools to work on my iPhone, and watch detailed instructions about how to repair my iPhone. (or Mac, or iPad, etc.) The products are NOT easy to work on, but I am not aware of any action that Apple has taken aga…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#138

Post by potta_coffee » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

comboy wrote: post #47

mattsfrey wrote: post #30

"Apple does not ‘own’ the product after they have sold it" I think this is the crux of the issue. The guy was importing refurbished parts with the logos covered even. They weren't counterfeits. How does a manufacturer have the right to sue for copyright infringement when it's just end users reselling authentic parts? The owner even states he in no way markets them as OEM parts. Frankly I think it's pretty obvious app…

I don't think they want to squeeze every cent. I think they just care about the brand. They want people who bought iphone to have the best experience they prepared for them. Even if you buy some used iphone. If somebody buys some used iphone and it acts weird or the build quality seems imperfect because some parts were replaced, then this person may spread opinion that iphones suck. I'd guess that's their reasoning.…

They altruistically try to shut down a business that provides a legitimate service to customers who want that service, out of the goodness of their hearts?

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#139

Post by bocklund » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:19 PM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #133

bluescrn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with rumours of Apple moving to ARM chips for their laptops, they could well try to take the opportunity to lock out unsigned code entirely... Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform. And if Microsoft had succeeded in the mobile/tablet space, they'd be doing exactly the same...

>Before long they could even choose to make you buy an expensive Mac Pro or iMac Pro, or even require an 'iOS dev kit' if you want to develop for their platform. Hopefully this was sarcasm, since this is literally what is required right now to develop for iOS - you need a Mac (windows is not allowed) and a $99 developer account.

FWIW, this has gotten better. It used to be that you could only use the Xcode simulator when developing iOS apps and had to have the $99 developer account to put apps on real provisioned devices. Now you only need to pay to put the app on the store.

Re: Apple Sued an iPhone Repair Shop Owner in Norway and Lost

#140

Post by eesmith » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 8:21 PM UTC

snowwrestler wrote: post #120

eesmith wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actions like fighting right-to-repair bills in many states. While you may have the right to do that yourself, they don't want you to have the right to hire someone else to do it for you. They also don't want you to have the right to get those parts for your iPhone. Apple goes after producers and technicians, and not so much end-users. For one, I think end-users have rights, like the first-sale doctrine, which makes i…

I agree with all that. I wonder though... how is it that I can buy parts from IFixIt? I'm honestly asking--I read the linked story about Norway and I don't see how what iFixIt does is different... except that they don't do the repairs themselves. But it was the parts shipment that Apple objected to. I think the legality of jailbreaking was actually decided by the Library of Congress DMCA exception process.

You are right, it was not a court case but a LoC exemption. Thanks for correcting my error!

iFixit was part of that effort. https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/8q89wb/how-to-fix... describes more about the company's history. I found it interesting.

https://es.ifixit.com/Answers/View/121003/The+replacement+ba... says (concerning a battery)

> The iPhone 4 Battery we sell is made to the same specifications as an Apple OEM part, but cannot be classified as 'OEM' because they are not made by Apple. Apple doesn't like to sell their OEM parts to anyone, so they are extremely hard to find. Our parts are brand new, fully tested, and made to the same quality as Apple OEM parts. They also come with a 6-month warranty."