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Road safety tips from Sweden

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Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#91

Post by CalRobert »

isostatic wrote: post #72
megaman22 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yikes, you wouldn't catch me on a bike on most roads in any of the rural areas that I've ever lived in (northeast). Good way to get creamed by a pulp truck - maybe 25% of roads have a paved shoulder, and those that do are typically high-speed (55mph), high-traffic routes.

Why is it culturally acceptable to murder people in the US?

Because when someone does it with their car, the jury empathizes with the driver over the victim. The person who was killed is the "other".

In countries where more people cycle and walk it can be the driver who is the "other" but that's rarely if ever the case in the US.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#92

Post by jopsen »

berg01 wrote: post #61
jopsen wrote: post #20

This article talks a lot about child seats... And only mentions the important parts speed bumps, separation of traffic and requirements for driving licenses. I like speed bumps, bus lock, and round abouts... These features are self-enforcing and violators are punished with swift justice. When you run over a speed bump too fast, the good old laws of physics will meter out an immediate punishment :)

I think you'll enjoy this 15 minute documentary on a particular bus trap in Stockholm: https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=v... Much of it is in English since many of the victims are tourists. (I think this an excellent example of an anti-pattern.)

The signs clearly says busses only.

Why shouldn't there be a price to pay :)

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#93

Post by CalRobert »

acdha wrote: post #90
isostatic wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it culturally acceptable to murder people in the US?

Part of it is that we make a lot of excuses for drivers since car ownership was a key part of the American self image for the 20th century. That also meant that there was an assumption that bicyclist meant poor and often non-white, adding that pressure to assume the victim was at fault. The self-image and idea of what a successful American is supposed to look like wasn’t something I thought about until my cycling gro…

I used to commute via bicycle from South Park to Clairemont Mesa. It was horrendously unpleasant, with close-passes and swearing all. the. time.

Tellingly SD will put in really nice bike lanes where there's already tons of empty space (Genesee in the middle of nowhere) but where you really need it, like University ave. in Hillcrest, they fight tooth and nail against it.

They like pretending to be bike friendly, at least! Nobody loves a good render more than them, and tour de fat is good fun.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#94

Post by jopsen »

briandear wrote: post #38
jopsen wrote: post #20

This article talks a lot about child seats... And only mentions the important parts speed bumps, separation of traffic and requirements for driving licenses. I like speed bumps, bus lock, and round abouts... These features are self-enforcing and violators are punished with swift justice. When you run over a speed bump too fast, the good old laws of physics will meter out an immediate punishment :)

How about just enforcing the speed limit? Speed humps on a road designed for 30 often require slowing to 10. Clearly you have never driven or worked in an ambulance or in emergency services.

Fair point... It's not great for emergency services.

But it's great for residential neighborhoods, and city limits.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#95

Post by solarkraft »

eesmith wrote: post #86
jlarsson89 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people with bad eye sight that affect their ability to see people crossing roads etc.

One difficulty is that it is much harder to live in the US without a car, while Sweden has a much better public transportation system. Take away someone's license in the US and it can be almost impossible for them to buy food, go to work, etc. I tried once living without a car for a month, and it only reason it was possible was because I lived near the center of town ... and because I bummed a few rides when I didn't…

How about a bicycle?

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#96

Post by solarkraft »

Numberwang wrote: post #54
jlarsson89 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have anecdotal evidence of old people with dementia driving and not having any idea where they are or what they are doing. https://www.thelocal.se/20170809/swedish-experts-call-for-ne... claims that they do recall licenses, but evidently not as thoroughly as they should.

I'm just thinking that to my mind it is very rare to hear about old people causing accidents (injuring someone else.) Alcoholics on the other hand cause a massive amount of accidents.

They seem to be well aware of their short comings & drive overly slowly instead of risking accidents.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#97

Post by solarkraft »

phamilton wrote: post #64
sjwright wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why anyone would want that. At no time in the two decades I've been driving a car, I've never, ever, ever thought to myself "This seatbelt is annoying, I wish I didn't have to use it." I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger.

> I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger Not sure how many road trips you took as a child, but lying down across the back seat with a seat belt is harder than without. We used to just throw caution to the wind, put the seats down in our suburban and fill the area with blankets.

Another case of conditioning. I automatically put on the seat belt (and fear weird without it) because I was raised this way.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#98

Post by berg01 »

jopsen wrote: post #92
berg01 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you'll enjoy this 15 minute documentary on a particular bus trap in Stockholm: https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=v... Much of it is in English since many of the victims are tourists. (I think this an excellent example of an anti-pattern.)

The signs clearly says busses only. Why shouldn't there be a price to pay :)

Ha!

We have a swearword for vindictive people like you in Sweden. It's "miljöpartist". Prounonced "millowepartist".

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#99

Post by tomkarlo »

Numberwang wrote: post #42
jlarsson89 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand plenty of people that really should have theirs taken away don't get theirs taken away, like old people with clear mental issues or people with bad eye sight that affect their ability to see people crossing roads etc.

Do you have numbers on these people causing a lot more than the average of accidents? Taking away driving licenses for old people is a big thing to do, especially if there is no need for it.

It depends how you group the age cohorts, but my recollection is that the second oldest cohort (something like 65-75) actually has one of the lowest accident rates, and the oldest one has a higher accident rate per mile but tend to drive fewer miles total (in particular, because they're not commuting to work.) So the benefits of taking away licenses from the elderly might be fairly limited compared to say, more strict testing for teenagers and tighter DUI rules.

Also, a good point someone was made is that it may be easier for technology to solve the problems of elderly drivers who still have good cognition. E.g. you can make up for their limited neck flexibility with blind spot radar and backup cameras, and poor reaction times with collision detection systems. It's harder to do that for a teen who wants to drive too fast or make aggressive lane changes.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#100

Post by acdha »

CalRobert wrote: post #93
acdha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is that we make a lot of excuses for drivers since car ownership was a key part of the American self image for the 20th century. That also meant that there was an assumption that bicyclist meant poor and often non-white, adding that pressure to assume the victim was at fault. The self-image and idea of what a successful American is supposed to look like wasn’t something I thought about until my cycling gro…

I used to commute via bicycle from South Park to Clairemont Mesa. It was horrendously unpleasant, with close-passes and swearing all. the. time. Tellingly SD will put in really nice bike lanes where there's already tons of empty space (Genesee in the middle of nowhere) but where you really need it, like University ave. in Hillcrest, they fight tooth and nail against it. They like pretending to be bike friendly, at le…

That really drove me up the wall - near perfect cycling weather year round, tons of space for long connector routes (I used to do San Carlos to Torrey Pines), and then bitter opposition to any attempt to make key intersections or neighborhood access easier.
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