Road safety tips from Sweden • Hacker News Board

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#61

Post by berg01 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:34 PM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #20

This article talks a lot about child seats... And only mentions the important parts speed bumps, separation of traffic and requirements for driving licenses. I like speed bumps, bus lock, and round abouts... These features are self-enforcing and violators are punished with swift justice. When you run over a speed bump too fast, the good old laws of physics will meter out an immediate punishment :)

I think you'll enjoy this 15 minute documentary on a particular bus trap in Stockholm:

https://www.svtplay.se/video/17480166/sparviddshinder?info=v...

Much of it is in English since many of the victims are tourists.

(I think this an excellent example of an anti-pattern.)

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#62

Post by aesclepius » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:47 PM UTC

JetSetWilly wrote: post #60

foreigner wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are a little older, but I've used the same strategy with bicycle helmets. There's never any argument about using them, because they've simply never been in a bicycle without a helmet, not seen me ride without one.

It is a bit worrying, there's no real evidence that rear facing seats improve outcomes for children, and similarly there's no real evidence that bicycle helmets improve outcomes for people in bicycle accidents. But somehow, the "safety industry" has leapt on these things and now everybody has a ludicrously fearful attitude to cycling and you get looked at funny (or even harassed by strangers) if you dare to let your…

While I don't know about rear-facing seats for outcomes, having cycled recreationally and for commute for the last 10 years, wearing a helmet has on multiple occasions saved me (yes I understand anecdata of 1) from mild lacerations to letting me walk away from a 40 mile downhill crash with road rash. Cycling without a helmet is a personal decision, but I don't understand how you can argue that increased head protection does not improve overall morbidity and mortality.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#63

Post by Steltek » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

rightnow wrote: post #13

alkonaut wrote: post #11

Pushing a big 3.5yo into a rear facing seat is hard, even in Sweden, and I doubt it's very common to keep kids rear facing up to 4 here. We do listen to authorities but it's nearly physically impossible after they reach a certain length. I believe most start using front facing seats some time between ages 3 and 4 depending on size. One problem with rear facing seats and large children is that it requires a LOT of spa…

Father of two twin kids at 3.5 years. Its not hard at all. They climb in themselves, and if u have a seat with adjustable iso-fix bars you get enough room for the front seats.

How do larger rear facing seats even fit in smaller European cars? Is your front passenger seat folded all the way down?

When we were last car shopping, we looked at small SUVs (CRV, Rav4, Forester) and a rear facing seat mounted "American-style" still intruded on the passenger seat. I can't imagine how you could shift the seat forwards in a sedan and make it work.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#64

Post by phamilton » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

sjwright wrote: post #18

TomK32 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Greece you can buy little metal plugs for your sealtbelt socket so you don't have to use the seatbelt and don't get the error beeps from the car. I'm sure it does contribute to the fatality rate.

I don't get why anyone would want that. At no time in the two decades I've been driving a car, I've never, ever, ever thought to myself "This seatbelt is annoying, I wish I didn't have to use it." I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger.

> I don't even recall ever thinking that as a child passenger

Not sure how many road trips you took as a child, but lying down across the back seat with a seat belt is harder than without.

We used to just throw caution to the wind, put the seats down in our suburban and fill the area with blankets.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#65

Post by nugi » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:54 PM UTC

TheForumTroll wrote: post #23

TomK32 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Greece you can buy little metal plugs for your sealtbelt socket so you don't have to use the seatbelt and don't get the error beeps from the car. I'm sure it does contribute to the fatality rate.

And in the US you can buy beer openers that fit in the seat-belt sockets when not in use.

And I own one!

It is used to shut off the beeping when carrying groceries in my passenger seat. Cheap and effective. But the initial thought betrays some reasoning.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#66

Post by nugi » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

jopsen wrote: post #20

This article talks a lot about child seats... And only mentions the important parts speed bumps, separation of traffic and requirements for driving licenses. I like speed bumps, bus lock, and round abouts... These features are self-enforcing and violators are punished with swift justice. When you run over a speed bump too fast, the good old laws of physics will meter out an immediate punishment :)

I hate speedbumps in my sportscar. Under 20, I often scrape. I have found speeding to 40+ allows my suspension to soak it up rather than upsetting the chassis. They have effectively incentivised my speeding. So, with each "solution", a problem.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#67

Post by megaman22 » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

jakeogh wrote: post #48

acdha wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many places it’s dependence. If everything you need requires traveling miles without good sidewalks, bike lanes, etc. and the population density is too low for public transit, a car is a requirement.

I'm trying to not pick one thing and run with it, so I'll kinda ignore the miles without sidewalks thing, so consider bike lanes, if it's rural, why bother? Bike lanes make sense (kinda) in a high car density only. Have you considered that some people deliberately don't live in cities structured around that because they consider not using (or paying for the infrastructure of) public transit a good thing?

Yikes, you wouldn't catch me on a bike on most roads in any of the rural areas that I've ever lived in (northeast). Good way to get creamed by a pulp truck - maybe 25% of roads have a paved shoulder, and those that do are typically high-speed (55mph), high-traffic routes.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#68

Post by CalRobert » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:03 PM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #4

bartkappenburg wrote: post #2

Here's a map that shows how many deaths in traffic are occuring per 1 million inhabitants in europe: https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/map_twitter.png

I thought the relevant statistic was deaths per kilometer traveled? Otherwise you get countries where people simply drive more skewed higher despite any given ride being just as safe/safer.

Infrastructure that forces you to drive more is more dangerous. Do we measure "deaths per bullet purchased"?

Shorter drives means fewer deaths, generally speaking.

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#69

Post by isostatic » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:06 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #56

lebski88 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (France, Italy, Britain) probably don't use rear facing seats as much In the UK rear facing is a legal requirement up to 15 months - I think that's being extended to older kids soon. We used rear facing until about 3.5 for our eldest. At that point we got her a new forward facing one and gave that one to our youngest. Two child seats basically means no one can fit in the middle unless you have an extra wide car. So…

> Two child seats basically means no one can fit in the middle unless you have an extra wide car The middle I never even worried about, the problem I find is that they take so much space in the front/back direction of the car. I.e. if you put a rear facing seat in the front passenger seat, no adult can sit behind it, and if you put a rear facing seat behind the front passenger seat, then no adult can sit in the front…

We have a c3 picasso, with a rear facing seat on the passenger side for a 3 year old (with a block to deal with the floor storage problem). Plenty of room for the passenger.

We spent a few weeks in Aus/NZ and bought a couple of car seats there (cheaper than renting them), which was odd -- they were rear facing and belted, but had straps to go over the back of the passenger seat and connect to an anchor point in the boot (trunk).

Re: Road safety tips from Sweden

#70

Post by isostatic » Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 5:09 PM UTC

ptaipale wrote: post #51

ed_balls wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are 2 reasons - Health issues - trouble breathing. - getting stuck in the car that's on fire, drowning etc. (yes I know you are better of with the seatbelt)

Some people have a phobia with the belt, and might even be legally have an exception. Someone I know has a brother who was in an accident, was wearing seat belt, was stuck in the car as he couldn't release the belt, and was burned somewhat. He simply couldn't buckle up after that and eventually got some kind of exemption for medical reasons.

I have one of these in the centre console container

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AA-Emergency-Windcsreen-Hammer-Seat...