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U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#81

Post by prostoalex »

gerbilly wrote: post #66
aksss wrote: post #42

Ride-sharing, like a fry cook, was never meant to be a life’s career ambition. Jeez people. Folks are complaining that a fry cook can’t afford to buy a house and an Uber driver doesn’t get a 401(k). Wake up and smell the coffee. Let these positions continue to function as gap-filling opportunities for the young and those who need massive flexibility or want side-hustles. We drive up employment cost massively and wond…

>Ride-sharing, like a fry cook, was never meant to be a life’s career ambition. Jeez people. Folks are complaining that a fry cook can’t afford to buy a house and an Uber driver doesn’t get a 401(k). Wake up and smell the coffee. Wouldn't it be nice if you could make a living being a 'fry cook?' When you leave work you could just kiss off and go have dinner, go bowling or whatever. Each day would be self contained. T…

> Wouldn't it be nice if you could make a living being a 'fry cook?'

There's no law preventing you (or anyone else) from opening (or co-investing in) a food establishment that pays high salaries and provides benefits to fry cooks.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#82

Post by walshemj »

jiveturkey wrote: post #55
walshemj wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is the basis of all salaried jobs ie you don't have fixed hours of work

my guess is most (by far) salaried jobs are not flex time. certainly flex hours is not the basis of all salaried jobs. to pick a job at random: teachers are salaried. they certainly have fixed working hours.

That's picking a rather specialised nich career which doesn't prove the point.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#83

Post by youpassbutter »

aksss wrote: post #42

Ride-sharing, like a fry cook, was never meant to be a life’s career ambition. Jeez people. Folks are complaining that a fry cook can’t afford to buy a house and an Uber driver doesn’t get a 401(k). Wake up and smell the coffee. Let these positions continue to function as gap-filling opportunities for the young and those who need massive flexibility or want side-hustles. We drive up employment cost massively and wond…

> Driving cars for hire has always been a shit way to make a living

There are plenty of drivers who made a good living. I had a friend in college from britain. His father was a taxi driver and who was able to provide for his stay at home wife, send his 3 kids to college ( one to NYC ) and buy a vacation home in spain. A solid middle class living as a taxi driver. So your premise about drivers always making shit pay is verifiably false.

But I do agree with you that uber is a disruptive technology and a middle class life as a driver is not something that can be maintain in today's environment.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#84

Post by skate22 »

amelius wrote: post #48
skate22 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in france several months ago and i canceled my uber & paid the driver the same price in cash. The driver was a nice guy, struggling to make enough.

Sounds good, and I feel more people should do this. But how often can you cancel a ride before you get banned from the platform? Also, are there any negative consequences for the driver when a ride is canceled, even before the start of the ride? I can imagine that Ueber can detect when driver and client are within talking distance (from cellphone GPS coordinates), so they can detect and penalize this form of "gaming"…

Im honestly not sure how they prevent people from trolling. There might be a cancelation fee for repeat offenders. One uber driver told me that he estimates that uber takes half of the fare. I wish there was a platform for drivers to pay a low monthly sub, but get to keep 100% of ride fares.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#85

Post by Namrog84 »

prostoalex wrote: post #81
gerbilly wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ride-sharing, like a fry cook, was never meant to be a life’s career ambition. Jeez people. Folks are complaining that a fry cook can’t afford to buy a house and an Uber driver doesn’t get a 401(k). Wake up and smell the coffee. Wouldn't it be nice if you could make a living being a 'fry cook?' When you leave work you could just kiss off and go have dinner, go bowling or whatever. Each day would be self contained. T…

> Wouldn't it be nice if you could make a living being a 'fry cook?' There's no law preventing you (or anyone else) from opening (or co-investing in) a food establishment that pays high salaries and provides benefits to fry cooks.

Exactly. It's a nice thing to say until someone proposes it being done.

I think most people don't realize how thin the margins really are on food services stuff. Or even most services.

To increase salary of fry cooks and drivers to be better. You need to charge more. But if everyone else is already on tight budgets then they also need increases in salary as well.

And now it becomes a bigger economical issue. I know it's not a zero sum game and I'd like to see everyone's wages increase. But it's a hard bigger problem.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#86

Post by db48x »

rtpg wrote: post #24
db48x wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that were all that mattered, then sure. There are a dozen or so other considerations.

The thing is that when you go down the list of employee classifications, Uber looks in a worse off, not a better off, position. Uber basically decides the interaction with the client. They place relatively strict conditions on how to deliver the service (can only use these kinds of cars, etc). Uber guides almost all parts of the service. Another that doesn't get talked about a lot: This is Uber's main business. Uber…

The drivers also provide the cars (a necessary and quite substantial capital asset), and it's very easy for a driver to work for multiple ride-sharing companies at once. A driver could easily lose money by accepting rides that don't earn them enough to pay for gas and maintenance. (On the other hand, the laws around here don't allow a taxi driver to reject a hire based on the destination, which is why the price has a per-mile component.)

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#87

Post by pnw_hazor »

busterarm wrote: post #80
pnw_hazor wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in Seattle or just about anywhere else the US. Befofe Uber, unless you were at one of the few cabs stands, waiting 1 hour for a cab, that may or may not even show up was not uncommon. Uber and Lyft have changed people's lives in most places they operate.

lolwut How long you had to wait for a cab has nothing to do with driving a cab being a good income. I've been in cabs pre-Uber all across the US. In places like Buffalo, Albany (any college town, really), all over Long Island, DC, LA, etc., I've talked to loads of cab drivers pre-Uber and they were making okay money. I used to take 20-minute cab trips in Long Island that cost $100. The zone and per passenger system i…

Airline pilots used to make more money too when airline pricing was regulated.

Cabs suck ass in most areas of the country because of government regulations granted them exclusive rights at the expense of the consumer. Turns out the consumer will use Uber or Lyft instead of cabs if given a choice. Nothing is stopping cabs from competing.

Also, see Cable TV/broadband Companies.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#88

Post by busterarm »

pnw_hazor wrote: post #87
busterarm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lolwut How long you had to wait for a cab has nothing to do with driving a cab being a good income. I've been in cabs pre-Uber all across the US. In places like Buffalo, Albany (any college town, really), all over Long Island, DC, LA, etc., I've talked to loads of cab drivers pre-Uber and they were making okay money. I used to take 20-minute cab trips in Long Island that cost $100. The zone and per passenger system i…

Airline pilots used to make more money too when airline pricing was regulated. Cabs suck ass in most areas of the country because of government regulations granted them exclusive rights at the expense of the consumer. Turns out the consumer will use Uber or Lyft instead of cabs if given a choice. Nothing is stopping cabs from competing. Also, see Cable TV/broadband Companies.

This was never up to debate.

My comments were purely based on the parent commenter saying that "driving a cab was never a decent living, ask any cabbie", which is false.

This is a derail. Does raise an interesting discussion of whether consumer convenience should always be optimized for though.

If you look at clothing, it's convenient and cheap because of an exploitative labor market built on appalling wages and child labor. Maybe I don't want the pilot of my plane or driver of my car working under those conditions though...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#89

Post by prostoalex »

Namrog84 wrote: post #85
prostoalex wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wouldn't it be nice if you could make a living being a 'fry cook?' There's no law preventing you (or anyone else) from opening (or co-investing in) a food establishment that pays high salaries and provides benefits to fry cooks.

Exactly. It's a nice thing to say until someone proposes it being done. I think most people don't realize how thin the margins really are on food services stuff. Or even most services. To increase salary of fry cooks and drivers to be better. You need to charge more. But if everyone else is already on tight budgets then they also need increases in salary as well. And now it becomes a bigger economical issue. I know i…

If society was interested in maximizing the sheer quantity of fried cooks, society would’ve created those incentives. Instead three sets of incentives exist nowadays:

1) Improve your skill set and move up within restaurant industry, hopefully towards high-end cuisine or managerial position.

2) Get out of the industry altogether and acquire some specialization like a plumber’s or electrician’s license.

3) Use the paid gig to acquire skills, remain in the industry but readjust your stake to equity instead of salary, by running a food truck, a burger stand or a pop-up taco spot.

All venues pretty much scream “Get out of this fry cook gig as soon as you can. There’s no outcome where you’re guaranteed a happy retirement and a golden watch”.

Re: U.S. judge says Uber drivers are not company's employees

#90

Post by toddBarkus »

drunkenmonkey wrote: post #77
toddBarkus wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the aspect of personal choice that you're skipping over. Uber drivers made the choice to apply to work as "independent contractors" and agreed to the terms. A bastard child has no agency in the arrangement, but a mistress likely did agree to the arrangement. There's no fair expectation of the latter to be retroactively or otherwise considered a legal spouse, nor is it just for a contractor to sue to force others…

These people did not choose to be born poor.

They chose to accept Uber's deal. Don't strawman
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