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ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

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Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#111

Post by state_less »

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #102
state_less wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the problem is the roll back of net neutrality for ISPs and at the same time calling for regulation on content providers. It doesn't seem like these interests are protecting the citizens. Anyhow, I do agree we should be protecting peoples right to privacy and unfettered access to the internet.

You're right, of course, but as scottie_m points out, the main issue here is one around messaging. The enemy of getting this fixed is complexity. Once we start targeting individual companies, types of internet connections, or hardware devices? We've lost. It's all over. It's not these things don't need fixing, it's that we have about ten words or so to put into a slogan. That slogan needs to be repeated over and over…

It's not just the Net Neutrality rules, along with Obama era Net Neutrality rules that were set to be put in place, there were security and privacy rules that ISPs also overturned. If we simply regulate the content providers, we won't get privacy on the internet and we'll also reward ISPs for their lobbying and manipulation.

ISPs don't need to collect our data to provide service, yet they do. Content providers don't need to track us, yet they do. They both need to be addressed, or as you say, "we've lost." So, Privacy Now! Or some better clarion call.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/verizon-asks-fcc...

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/04/trumps-signature...

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#112

Post by rayiner »

joe_the_user wrote: post #73
ethbro wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ironic that two classes of monopolies (ISPs and Big Web) are being discussed here with diametrically opposed recommendations. For ISPs, the council is that they should be regulated (e.g. net neutrality, data privacy). For Facebook, Google, et al. the council is that they shouldn't be regulated (e.g. EU GDPR). I have yet to see a cogent argument justifying that difference. My suspicion is that it ultimately…

I find it ironic that two classes of monopolies (ISPs and Big Web) are being discussed here with diametrically opposed recommendations. Technically, "Big web" would be perhaps a structural oligopoly [1] or you could say the market has monopolistic competition[2]. they're protected by the network effect, they provide unique products that are hard to duplicate. They are not actual monopolies as economists define them (…

> But ISPs are straight, government-granted monopolies [3]. Such companies have essentially one incentive, be good at influencing regulators and legislators.

Except they aren’t and haven’t been since the 1994 cable act made granting monopoly franchises illegal.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#113

Post by rayiner »

joe_the_user wrote: post #100
ethbro wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your contention is that structural oligopolies (or markets with monopolistic competition) should not be regulated? I'd be curious to know why.

So your contention is that structural oligopolies (or markets with monopolistic competition) should not be regulated? That's nowhere in my argument. I merely pointed that government grant monopolies pretty much automatically should be regulated since they are virtually extensions of government fiat already ("we" give Comcast etc a monopoly on placement on phone poles and similar stuff, we should get something for tha…

> we" give Comcast etc a monopoly on placement on phone poles and similar stuff, we should get something for that) and that this situation isn't comparable to monopolistic competition.

Comcast doesn’t have a monopoly on placing things on utility poles. Poles are mostly owned by power companies or the local phone company, and those entities are required to lease pole space to everyone at non-discriminatory rates.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#114

Post by quantized1 »

bitrazor123 wrote: post #29

Frankly as an end-user , one has to choose between bad and worse. Consumers are a true product now, readily available for exploitation

And to worsen the legal system doesn't come to rescue. Infact they joined hand with business and created a bible size EULA with legal jargon, which end-user have to accept and move forward.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#115

Post by Gigablah »

woolvalley wrote: post #109
ethbro wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it ironic that two classes of monopolies (ISPs and Big Web) are being discussed here with diametrically opposed recommendations. For ISPs, the council is that they should be regulated (e.g. net neutrality, data privacy). For Facebook, Google, et al. the council is that they shouldn't be regulated (e.g. EU GDPR). I have yet to see a cogent argument justifying that difference. My suspicion is that it ultimately…

I think most people are fine with the GDPR applying to large companies. The biggest contention with the GDPR is it applying to small companies, because the amount of work to comply with it costs a lot. And the penalties being scaled in a way that only makes sense to large tech companies. TBH, small under 10 engineer companies are are rarely privacy threats. And Sue's maid service who uses excel spreadsheets to track…

No, I am not fine with this. I don't care if a company has 10 engineers or 50 (hi WhatsApp) or 10,000. The number of engineers has no relation to how many users are exposed to privacy risk.

After all, one single developer can make a popular app that reaches millions. (If you want an example, the Muslim Pro app has over 40 million downloads and is made by a team of less than 5).

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