ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws • Hacker News Board

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#11

Post by 908087 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:11 PM UTC

Techdirt really doesn't live up to its name. When that site isn't actively avoiding major stories that make Silicon Valley megacorps look bad, they're busily defending the Surveillance Valley business model outright.

The "ISPs are bad, therefore Silicon Valley should be allowed to continue running roughshod over users' privacy" narrative is really idiotic. It tries to present this as a situation where we have a choice of either regulating ISPs, or regulating privacy-invading Silicon Valley surveillance corporations, but not both.

Edit: I just read the full article, and yes maybe my assumption wasn't charitable. That said, I had just got done reading this article where Mike Masnick encourages us to continue giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who has repeatedly violated trust for more than a decade, which left me assuming it would just be more of the same.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20180408/22400539590/faceb...

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#12

Post by jklinger410 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:14 PM UTC

908087 wrote: post #11

Techdirt really doesn't live up to its name. When that site isn't actively avoiding major stories that make Silicon Valley megacorps look bad, they're busily defending the Surveillance Valley business model outright. The "ISPs are bad, therefore Silicon Valley should be allowed to continue running roughshod over users' privacy" narrative is really idiotic. It tries to present this as a situation where we have a choic…

Your comment reflects a bad faith reading of the article and actually doesn't reflect the content of what was written.

Maybe read the article next time and not make such a low-effort comment.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#13

Post by lithos » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

carlmcqueen wrote: post #9

Can we please lump the data leaks of Equifax and the like in with the need for these new laws that shift user data from something companies are mining to something they are protecting and disclosing?

ISPs are planning to get into the data game. They aim to have laws that limit SV type startups, rather than increase their future liability.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#14

Post by state_less » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #6

sambull wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silicon Valley doesn't need new laws that's bullshit. People and privacy need strong laws that protect them. Irregardless of who's doing it.

That's a great point. I need the protection. We don't need to go and start creating huge regulatory bodies around various industries, pitting one against the other. Make it so my information can't be captured -- or it can't be shared. Or make it so that keeping any information of mine past 30 days is a felony. Then no matter who the businesses are, people can sue them and owners can go to jail. Instead of trying to f…

I think the problem is the roll back of net neutrality for ISPs and at the same time calling for regulation on content providers. It doesn't seem like these interests are protecting the citizens.

Anyhow, I do agree we should be protecting peoples right to privacy and unfettered access to the internet.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#15

Post by dsfyu404ed » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

The people who make up the tech industry been a huge proponent of regulating all sorts of things at all scales, from individual actions to small businesses to large corporations.

The use of the FB/CA "scandal" to promote knee jerk legislation that burdens the tech industry is just tech being on the receiving end of something they have no qualms about advocating for when it happens to a different industry.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#16

Post by mtgx » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

Silicon Valley brought this to itself. I used to warn of this before, too, that they can't continue to do "evil stuff" and expect to have people's backing when the governments will come after them to regulate them for whatever reason. But they continued because they saw that nobody leaves them over the crap they pull so they thought there must be no consequences to their anti-consumer moves.

The only downside I see is that governments will use this excuse to bring more censorship and anti-encryption laws, too, and I hate that Silicon Valley companies put is in a position where we have to either put up with their crap or side with governments and get some bad internet laws passed.

But right now, I think it's time to rein in on the Silicon Valley companies over their abuse of user data. Then we can deal with the abuse of user data by ISPs, data brokers, and everyone else. Ideally, this would be solved with a GDPR-like law, so that even ISPs "lose" in this scenario, and the consumers win. If we're lucky we may be able to stave off the government from trying to put an anti-encryption bill into the whole thing.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#17

Post by mkirklions » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:18 PM UTC

As someone that is programming a finance tech app, every regulation is bad for the future.

I am not afraid of regulation but its an annoying burden to keep big players big, and small players non-existent.

Most people do not have the money or motivation I have, and those people lose out because of regulations.

Never let a good tragedy go to waste.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#18

Post by wgerard » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

scottie_m wrote: post #3

Silicon Valley needs new laws, accept that, and make the fight about ensuring those laws aren’t burdensome, anticompetitive, and downright stupid. If you spend your energy trying to make those laws not happen at all, they’ll be done to us and not with us. It’s time to accept that a significant (more than 65%) of people want regulations in the tech space, and calmly, patiently explain what kinds of regulations can be…

I think people are understandably wary of new regulations, namely because:

* The US isn't immune at all to regulatory capture [0]

* It's highly likely there are already existing regulations and laws that cover this but merely aren't being enforced (in which case, why would these new regulations be enforced either?)

* ISPs undoubtedly have a huge conflict of interest here

Which isn't to say that new laws are always a bad idea, more that they should be a measured response and not a knee-jerk reaction spawned by bad actors.

It's also far easier to point out badly crafted and/or ill-intentioned law proposals than it is to create effective and fair legislation, but both are necessary for the process to move forward.

That is, I think many people would agree with you (one need only read the comments on any of the threads about Equifax), but think this is basically an untenable place to start from.

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#United_Stat...

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#19

Post by 908087 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

jklinger410 wrote: post #12

908087 wrote: post #11

Techdirt really doesn't live up to its name. When that site isn't actively avoiding major stories that make Silicon Valley megacorps look bad, they're busily defending the Surveillance Valley business model outright. The "ISPs are bad, therefore Silicon Valley should be allowed to continue running roughshod over users' privacy" narrative is really idiotic. It tries to present this as a situation where we have a choic…

Your comment reflects a bad faith reading of the article and actually doesn't reflect the content of what was written. Maybe read the article next time and not make such a low-effort comment.

Most of what I've read on techdirt over the past couple years seems to represent a bad faith effort to frame the current situation as "ISPs vs. Silicon Valley and the users", where the reality of the situation is "ISPs and Silicon Valley vs. the users" (and there's a recent situation in California where the ISPs teamed up with Silicon Valley to prove that point). It's hard to give the benefit of the doubt to that site at this point.

..and I say this as someone who used to be a big fan of that site. It's disappointing.

Re: ISPs Aim to Use Facebook Fracas to Saddle Silicon Valley with Crappy New Laws

#20

Post by drawkbox » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 3:19 PM UTC

The ISPs are in an all out attack on competitors like Facebook/Google/Netflix/others. ISPs bought their way into the market with the ISP privacy protections being removed [1][2] and net neutrality being killed rather than innovating. The privacy protections being removed helped lessen the FCC grip on privacy and helped their case, with legislators not the people, to remove FCC net neutrality protections.

It is obvious everywhere that massive PR pushes are going on and astroturfing to a heavy degree everywhere ISP competitors on the advertising/privacy/data space are.

Instead of innovating their way in with products people want and improving their networks so people pay more, the ISPs are trying to win this via bribing for legislation and mud slinging. They bought their way in with the ISP privacy protections being removed under the FCC to the FTC because they have more leverage there.

It is sad ISPs have resorted to this instead of innovating and creating products people want by improving them rather than trying to slow down competitors via bribing and lobbying.

ISPs were once a beacon of innovation bringing in broadband, now they are in the milking it phase.

[1] https://eff.org/deeplinks/2017/03/five-creepy-things-your-is...

[2] https://www.flake.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2017/3/op-ed-f...