Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

businessinsider.com

141–150 of 258 posts

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>While skilled, I doubt than more than a small fraction of FB work force is close to Feynman's IQ. Feynman is semi-famous for testing at a much lower IQ than most people assume. (He scored 125 on his test at school). See: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/finding-the-next-ein...

Unless I'm mistaken, I tested out at 140 a long time ago. There is no friggin way I'm remotely as intelligent as Feynman was so there goes any faith in IQ tests being meaningful. Most of the people who have worked for me are demonstrably smarter than me and none of them are close to Feynman. Smart people but not at his level IMO. RIP IQ tests :)

Doesn't it depend a lot on what age you take the test though? Like I was very smart for my age as a child and I tested very high. Later in life I'm probably not much higher than my peers.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#142
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump voters The other groups maybe , but I doubt even Stalin thought the Great Purges would have gone better if he purged 49% of the Soviet Union's population.

Are you implying 49% of the US population voted for Trump? It was closer to 19% of the population (63,000,000 / 326,000,000)

What percentage voted?

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#143
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great that you've got a set of principles that you live by, and are able to stick to them. However, your principles are not everyone's principles, and what you consider moral and ethical is not universal. Grellas had a great comment on working for the military industrial complex a few days ago, that I think is worth a read: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16759324

Lots of words in the linked comment, but it still amounts to making machines that mechanise the process of killing people.

"Lots of words"?!

You just reduced the linked comment - a nuanced, neutrally presented argument that there are significant practical and philosophical difficulties inherent to refusing to develop technology for military application - to "lots of words", followed by what is effectively a rhetorical sneer.

You don't have to agree with every comment asserting an opposing view, but at least give them a modicum of respect if they put in as much intellectual effort as that one. Why even bother commenting if you're just going to issue a middle-brow dismissal without a substantive critique?

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#144
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Facebook? The ones that help get TRUMP ELECTED?" I think that would be enough to get you blacklisted in certain California crowds.

Please don't be flippant. You know the what we mean here: the perception that those who work at Facebook are lacking in ethics or moral fiber. This isn't about politics.

Are you implying ethics and morals are unrelated to politics?

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#145
post #115
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anti-vaxers, pizzagaters, people who don't watch anough TV. Let’s be honest: What we’re after is Trump voters, Alex Jones/Milo fans, supporters of James Damore, non-feminists, non-supporters of Emmy Awards stances and generally all people who don’t laugh enough at Steven Colbert jokes. It was made very clear, for example at Google, that managers are building blacklists, and that HR supports them.

Trump voters The other groups maybe , but I doubt even Stalin thought the Great Purges would have gone better if he purged 49% of the Soviet Union's population.

Well, it's more like 19% of the population (or 27% of the eligible voter pop.)

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#146
post #5

I wonder how many new hires pass up Facebook because of ethical concerns. Whats scary is if even internally people are moving departments because of ethics, that basically filters so that the least ethical people are on the teams with the most ethical concerns. If there's a real net effect on their hiring, they'll have to increase salaries to lure people in, which will take in even more unethical people (of course, n…

I find this issue much more pressing in the defense industry. I (thankfully) have the freedom to choose where I work. I will never willingly work on weapon systems. There are those that do though. Engineers who design things to kill other people. What the actual fuck.

Do you also object to having armed forces?

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#147
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the fact that Galkovskiy, the engineer who perfected the Katyusha rocket launcher, decided to work on a weapon that played a major role in defeating Nazi Germany offends you?

Your argument is not on great footing if you have to reach 70 years back to WW2 in order to find an ethical example of working for the War Industry.

That argument is actually on strong footing in principle, because only one counterexample is required to demonstrate that something isn't universally true a priori.

On the other hand, your argument is weak because 1) you attack a strawman (the commenter did not indicate by their choice of example that it is the most recent), and 2) you did not substantiate why developing military technology then would be different to developing military technology now, in such a way that precludes beneficial use.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#148

I work at Facebook and have personally seen no evidence of this. The article cites one designer who left (out of ~25,000+ total Facebook employees).

I am well-connected to Facebook and I have no impression that employees are transferring or worried in any way. The media's exaggerations of employees' reactions is almost as bad as their exaggerations of what Facebook is doing with data.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#149

This is sort of surprising information, from my view. The information about their business model and data practices which people seem to be so surprised by was/is common knowledge among people who work with these technology stacks. Going to work for Facebook seemed like it would have meant supporting and abetting those practices; they were very clear about what they were doing, and the roles were in no way ambiguous.…

The cynic in you is obviously right about this one.

The best case scenario here is many people simply didn't ever consider the actual ethics of the business that was paying them until everyone else started talking about it.

Not thinking about it until someone makes you doesn't make you a terrible person of course, but I won't be throwing any admiration your way.

Re: Facebook Employees Are Quitting or Switching Departments Over Ethical Concerns

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FB controversy doesn't erase technological accomplishments of individuals It doesn't, but it doesn't look great if those accomplishments end up having a negative impact on society. Do you really want to have "I wrote an novel algorithm to track people" on your resume? > Software engineering doesn't have the same ethical consequences and motivations as other fields (medicine, law, etc.). It doesn't make much sense t…

>Do you really want to have "I wrote an novel algorithm to track people" on your resume? The great thing about writing resumes is that you can leave things off. >Software engineers should have to deal with the ethical consequences of the work they've done. Give us legal protections and resources to stand up and to and report unethical behavior by companies then. You're arguing correctly on a moral ground, but you don…

> The great thing about writing resumes is that you can leave things off.

Sure, but then you're diminishing the value of what you did. If someone asks you want you did at Facebook, it would be odd if you said "I'd rather not say", as would it if you had five years of blank in your resume.

> Give us legal protections and resources to stand up and to and report unethical behavior by companies then.

I do agree that this is an issue that should be addressed.

Post reply on HN