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Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

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Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#251

Post by whazor »

maherbeg wrote: post #34
wpietri wrote: post #7

This is a puzzle to me. Uber faces some critical issues ahead. If they can solve them, the bikes will be a rounding error. If they can't, the bike business won't be enough to save them. Why add the complexity when they could buy or build something later? I especially can't figure out why the Jump CEO would do it. The odds of their work surviving to the 10 year mark seems so small. It reminds me of something like Dodg…

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly as infrastructure gets improved for biking. You can get significant traffic density improvements by pushing bikes instead of cars, and e-bikes make this more accessible.

To support your point, e-bikes are fast. They go like 25km/h, and they often beat cars in speed as they do not get stuck in traffic.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#252

Post by rorykoehler »

wpietri wrote: post #7

This is a puzzle to me. Uber faces some critical issues ahead. If they can solve them, the bikes will be a rounding error. If they can't, the bike business won't be enough to save them. Why add the complexity when they could buy or build something later? I especially can't figure out why the Jump CEO would do it. The odds of their work surviving to the 10 year mark seems so small. It reminds me of something like Dodg…

Uber gets you from A to B. I don't see how they couldn't get in now.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#253

Post by [deleted] »

mulmen wrote: post #236
kibibyte wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're basically regular bikes, but with an electric motor that helps you with pedaling. Unlike a moped or motorcycle, you still need to pedal an e-bike to get it moving. The Jump bikes in SF use 250W motors, which, when going uphill, is similar to having an extra person helping you pedal. People should be a little more careful on these because these bikes can go pretty fast. That said, from my own experience using…

Yeah I get that but where is the line? Can I put a 10hp electric motor on a bicycle and ride it through a park? If so why can't I do that with a small gas motor? Are there actual regulations on this? If they go fast enough that people "need to be careful" where is the line where we ask them to prove they can be careful? In Seattle you have to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles and bicycles. In the case…

[deleted]

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#254

Post by askafriend »

paulie_a wrote: post #81
jseliger wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's the power assist that makes it feel more like a scooter than a bike There are many comments online about how awesome electric bikes are and many skeptical responses. I think the basic divide comes down to one thing: Has the person tried an electric bike? Almost everyone who has immediately sees them as awesome. Many who haven't don't get the point. There are finally some reputable electric bikes available for ar…

My first experience with an electric bike was pretty fun. I was at a stop light in front of a car and looked back to see a very angry look that I was on a bike...I cleared the intersection before they even entered it. It was a custom bike capable of 60mph

60mph capabilities on a bicycle-like frame sounds very dangerous.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#255

Post by macroexpanse »

mulmen wrote: post #236
kibibyte wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're basically regular bikes, but with an electric motor that helps you with pedaling. Unlike a moped or motorcycle, you still need to pedal an e-bike to get it moving. The Jump bikes in SF use 250W motors, which, when going uphill, is similar to having an extra person helping you pedal. People should be a little more careful on these because these bikes can go pretty fast. That said, from my own experience using…

Yeah I get that but where is the line? Can I put a 10hp electric motor on a bicycle and ride it through a park? If so why can't I do that with a small gas motor? Are there actual regulations on this? If they go fast enough that people "need to be careful" where is the line where we ask them to prove they can be careful? In Seattle you have to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles and bicycles. In the case…

No, you can't. The bike has to be "electric pedal assist" to be street legal. That means it requires more attention and physical effort from the rider than a throttled vehicle. The engines aren't very powerful and the speeds are capped at 20 mph or below.

You're right that Seattle should've taken the time to actually repeal the helmet law. Your comparison of riding helmetless while cycling compared to a motor cycle is a bit much though don't you think? Seat belt laws have much stronger evidence in their favor. Helmet laws are not a panacea for cycling safety and could actually be harmful to both cyclists and to the general population.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/06/02/why-helmets-arent-the...

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2015/11/10/more-evidence-that-he...

This anti VC angle you're taking is bizarre. How does increased access to transportation not benefit the public?

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#256

Post by fragmede »

wpietri wrote: post #182
maherbeg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly as infrastructure gets improved for biking. You can get significant traffic density improvements by pushing bikes instead of cars, and e-bikes make this more accessible.

I've been cycling in SF for more than a decade and am a SF Bike Coalition member, so I doubt I'm underestimating it all that much. But even if you are right I don't understand why Uber is eager to buy in now . If this takes off so much that Uber is obliged to get in on the action, they can wait. It strikes me as like Apple with MP3 players or smartphones or smartwatches: it's cheaper and easier to let somebody else p…

If you've been bicycling in the city for more than a decade, then you're definitely underestimating it. In that "over a decade", you've internalized the mountain of suck that bicycling is, sometimes, and have accepted that as "just how it is to bicycle in the city". Jump, in particular, doesn't have to contend with some of those.

In particular, you've had to lock up your bike and still had it/parts stolen - not your problem if it's not your bike. Not being your bike also takes care of the maintenance - not your bike means it's not your problem! (I mean, don't go around trashing their bikes for the sake of it, but it means you don't have to worry about the derailleur alignment or tire/rim sizes.) There's the logistics of biking - if you go out, but take a taxi home, then you have to come back to get your bike later. Jump means you don't have to, and if you don't bike back, you can take an Uber instead.

You've definitely had a car almost kill you - likely more than once. The new protected lanes that are popping up all over the city don't make that problem go away, but it's a big step forwards.

Imagine having never experienced being almost killed by a car.

Finally, there's that whole pedaling thing. Not to be (further) presumptuous, but I'm guessing somewhere in the 10+ years, there's a stop sign that's been run. If you stop, then you have to start again. That gets old pretty quickly on any street with stop signs every block. Jump bikes being electric makes that stop being such a workout.

None of these problems are truly insurmountable - as your experience proves! There are other problems w/ bicycling that Jump doesn't solve, but Uber's bet is the kind of friction that Jump does solve, will make this purchase profitable for them, $2 for 30 mins at a time.

Finally, since Uber knows where its riders have been dropped off, it's able to use that data to move Jump bikes around the city to optimize their placement.

If you wait until something's a "sure" thing, then it's too late - the price has gone up, so there's less money to be made. The time to buy BTC was 10 years ago, not now, but if you think it's this weird sketchy thing now, 10 years ago it was E-gold 2.0.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#257

Post by mulmen »

macroexpanse wrote: post #255
mulmen wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I get that but where is the line? Can I put a 10hp electric motor on a bicycle and ride it through a park? If so why can't I do that with a small gas motor? Are there actual regulations on this? If they go fast enough that people "need to be careful" where is the line where we ask them to prove they can be careful? In Seattle you have to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles and bicycles. In the case…

No, you can't. The bike has to be "electric pedal assist" to be street legal. That means it requires more attention and physical effort from the rider than a throttled vehicle. The engines aren't very powerful and the speeds are capped at 20 mph or below. You're right that Seattle should've taken the time to actually repeal the helmet law. Your comparison of riding helmetless while cycling compared to a motor cycle i…

I’m not anti-VC but if you have followed the development of bike share in Seattle it seems to be more about making businesses work than about making transit work. My problem also has to do with the selective enforcement of the helmet law to enrich investors.

I don’t mind if investors make money. I mind when they circumvent our laws and endanger the public to do so.

I also admit to some ignorance about e-bikes which has now been cleared up by you and sibling commenters.

My comparison to motorcycle helmet laws and seat belt laws was just to reinforce that if we are going to selectively enforce the bicycle helmet law we should just repeal it because it’s clearly not as important as motorcycle helmets or car seat belts.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#258

Post by macroexpanse »

mulmen wrote: post #257
macroexpanse wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you can't. The bike has to be "electric pedal assist" to be street legal. That means it requires more attention and physical effort from the rider than a throttled vehicle. The engines aren't very powerful and the speeds are capped at 20 mph or below. You're right that Seattle should've taken the time to actually repeal the helmet law. Your comparison of riding helmetless while cycling compared to a motor cycle i…

I’m not anti-VC but if you have followed the development of bike share in Seattle it seems to be more about making businesses work than about making transit work. My problem also has to do with the selective enforcement of the helmet law to enrich investors. I don’t mind if investors make money. I mind when they circumvent our laws and endanger the public to do so. I also admit to some ignorance about e-bikes which h…

Point taken. There should not be a double standard. City legislators need to have the spine to change the law.

I have been following the story of bike share in Seattle. It's a shame that Pronto and Motivate lost the contract.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#259

Post by gaius »

megablast wrote: post #242
gaius wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly That is literally what people said about Segways.

This is such a silly reason to be against it, they are incomparable.

I am not against it (well, anymore than any decent person would be against things Uber do in general) just pointing out the eerie similarity

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#260

Post by ryanlol »

syndacks wrote: post #216

I think these bikes miss the mark on two major fronts: - Why do they need to be electric? Bicycles are phenomenally efficient, even for people who aren't in "good shape." In SF you can find routes around the really crazy hills. Furthermore, electric bikes reduce the barrier to entry for douches to "go cruising". Every day (NYC) I almost get hit by one of these things buzzing around. I'm sure these bikes are less powe…

This really reads like someone who's never tried an electric bike, there's simply no way that is "missing the mark".
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