Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#241

Post by gaius » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 4:34 AM UTC

maherbeg wrote: post #34

wpietri wrote: post #7

This is a puzzle to me. Uber faces some critical issues ahead. If they can solve them, the bikes will be a rounding error. If they can't, the bike business won't be enough to save them. Why add the complexity when they could buy or build something later? I especially can't figure out why the Jump CEO would do it. The odds of their work surviving to the 10 year mark seems so small. It reminds me of something like Dodg…

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly as infrastructure gets improved for biking. You can get significant traffic density improvements by pushing bikes instead of cars, and e-bikes make this more accessible.

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly

That is literally what people said about Segways.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#242

Post by megablast » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 4:36 AM UTC

gaius wrote: post #241

maherbeg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly as infrastructure gets improved for biking. You can get significant traffic density improvements by pushing bikes instead of cars, and e-bikes make this more accessible.

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly That is literally what people said about Segways.

This is such a silly reason to be against it, they are incomparable.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#243

Post by fergie » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 4:47 AM UTC

maherbeg wrote: post #34

wpietri wrote: post #7

This is a puzzle to me. Uber faces some critical issues ahead. If they can solve them, the bikes will be a rounding error. If they can't, the bike business won't be enough to save them. Why add the complexity when they could buy or build something later? I especially can't figure out why the Jump CEO would do it. The odds of their work surviving to the 10 year mark seems so small. It reminds me of something like Dodg…

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly as infrastructure gets improved for biking. You can get significant traffic density improvements by pushing bikes instead of cars, and e-bikes make this more accessible.

It could be a way for Uber to generate goodwill, particularly in Europe where they have been effectively banned from several cities.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#244

Post by clairity » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 4:58 AM UTC

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #210

clairity wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

los angeles is perfect for bike transport. it's sunny and doesn't get too hot or too cold most of the year (in the LA basin proper, the san fernando and inland valleys are a different story). the city government is pro bike path and installing more bike lanes every day. biking is faster during the 6 hours of rush hour a day. most amenities are within 2-3 miles (~15 minutes) of where you live. you can take your bike o…

I biked around LA as a tourist, but the sprawl was so bad, that the majority of the time you spent in transit only to stop off at certain points. Biking in the Berkeley area is like night-and-day, where I don't have to sit on the bike for 10 min. to get to the next plaza. I'd do it again as I enjoy biking much more than driving, but I'm definitely more on the bike-nut side of things.

i can see that being a tourist in LA could be a little frustrating, especially on a bike. the major attractions like the getty, venice beach, k-town, hollywood, the tar pits/moma, the disney concert hall, disneyland, the huntington gardens, the forum, the hollywood bowl, beverly hills, LA live, the zoo/science center, watts towers, the sunset strip, malibu, etc. can be annoyingly far apart.

but as a resident i almost never do that kind of ping-ponging around town. you can find good food, drinks, and entertainment in each neighborhood so i typically hit up only one area of town on a given evening, depending on which friends i'm with (or visiting).

berkeley is nice and chill and bike-friendly, but it's also tiny compared to LA (18 vs 500 sq. miles).

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#245

Post by kalleboo » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:18 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #236

kibibyte wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're basically regular bikes, but with an electric motor that helps you with pedaling. Unlike a moped or motorcycle, you still need to pedal an e-bike to get it moving. The Jump bikes in SF use 250W motors, which, when going uphill, is similar to having an extra person helping you pedal. People should be a little more careful on these because these bikes can go pretty fast. That said, from my own experience using…

Yeah I get that but where is the line? Can I put a 10hp electric motor on a bicycle and ride it through a park? If so why can't I do that with a small gas motor? Are there actual regulations on this? If they go fast enough that people "need to be careful" where is the line where we ask them to prove they can be careful? In Seattle you have to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles and bicycles. In the case…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle#Legal_status

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_S...

CPSC rules stipulate that low speed electric bicycles are exempt from classification as motor vehicles providing they have fully operable pedals, an electric motor of less than 750W (1 hp), and a top motor-powered speed of less than 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) when operated by a rider weighing 170 pounds

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#246

Post by bhups » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:18 AM UTC

mulmen wrote: post #233

I can't figure out why e-bikes are considered bicycles and not mopeds or motorcycles. How does this not require a drivers license, with or without a motorcycle endorsement? Is the output limited (like the 50cc moped)? Why are motorized vehicles allowed on bike lanes just because they have electric motors instead of gas? I'm also totally blown away by Seattle's disregard for helmet laws to enrich some venture capitali…

Re: the helmet laws, they've been shown to do more harm than good[1]. Helmet laws suppress ridership, and riders tend to be safer when they're surrounded by more bicyclists. This is why cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen are actually safer for riders despite having no helmet laws.

[1] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/04/how-effective...

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#247

Post by mulmen » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:21 AM UTC

kalleboo wrote: post #245

mulmen wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I get that but where is the line? Can I put a 10hp electric motor on a bicycle and ride it through a park? If so why can't I do that with a small gas motor? Are there actual regulations on this? If they go fast enough that people "need to be careful" where is the line where we ask them to prove they can be careful? In Seattle you have to wear seatbelts in cars and helmets on motorcycles and bicycles. In the case…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle#Legal_status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_bicycle_laws#United_S... CPSC rules stipulate that low speed electric bicycles are exempt from classification as motor vehicles providing they have fully operable pedals, an electric motor of less than 750W (1 hp), and a top motor-powered speed of less than 20 miles per hour (32 km/h) when operated by a rider weighing 1…

Huh, have to say I'm a bit embarrassed I didn't look that up myself. Thanks for taking the time.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#248

Post by balls187 » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:21 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #182

maherbeg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may underestimate the impact e-bikes are going to have on major (non-car centric) cities. They'll likely reshape cities significantly as infrastructure gets improved for biking. You can get significant traffic density improvements by pushing bikes instead of cars, and e-bikes make this more accessible.

I've been cycling in SF for more than a decade and am a SF Bike Coalition member, so I doubt I'm underestimating it all that much. But even if you are right I don't understand why Uber is eager to buy in now . If this takes off so much that Uber is obliged to get in on the action, they can wait. It strikes me as like Apple with MP3 players or smartphones or smartwatches: it's cheaper and easier to let somebody else p…

Second Mover Advantage is as valuable as First Mover Advantage.

> it's cheaper and easier to let somebody else prove the market and then just come in and crush everybody.

before there is a dominant player

WRT to your Apple and MP3 market, Microsoft tried the same thing with it's Zune, and failed miserably.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#249

Post by robszumski » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:22 AM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #185

ska wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The odds of their work surviving to the 10 year mark seems so small. Are you sure that the odds are worse than surviving the 10 year mark without an acquisition? Would hardly be the first time someone sold because they simply couldn't make the growth math work, and they were all out of good options for financing.

I'm not sure, but that's the way I'd bet. They just took $10m in January, which is a fair bit of runway for testing hypotheses. When they start to run low on that, they can go to every single VC firm for more. Inside Uber, they are going to have approximately one executive to get funding from. Currently that executive obviously likes them. But feelings change, and they're just a reorg or an executive departure away f…

Isn't this the same problem with a VC? The funds might like you now, but watch those ride numbers drop a bit and suddenly folks want ridiculous terms and you don't have many options. I would bet that getting $10m a year in the budget for a few years is no sweat at Uber...they had gross revenue of $37B in 2017. I realize they are trying to cut that, but increasing engagement in already profitable cities might have a material impact in the other direction.

Re: Uber enters dockless bike wars with Jump acquisition

#250

Post by mulmen » Tue, Apr 10, 2018, 5:24 AM UTC

bhups wrote: post #246

mulmen wrote: post #233

I can't figure out why e-bikes are considered bicycles and not mopeds or motorcycles. How does this not require a drivers license, with or without a motorcycle endorsement? Is the output limited (like the 50cc moped)? Why are motorized vehicles allowed on bike lanes just because they have electric motors instead of gas? I'm also totally blown away by Seattle's disregard for helmet laws to enrich some venture capitali…

Re: the helmet laws, they've been shown to do more harm than good[1]. Helmet laws suppress ridership, and riders tend to be safer when they're surrounded by more bicyclists. This is why cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen are actually safer for riders despite having no helmet laws. [1] https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2017/04/how-effective...

Yeah I'm with you on the helmet laws. I'm not ok with the selective enforcement. If they cause more harm than good we should repeal the law.

When I took the MSF class there was talk of repealing the motorcycle helmet law for similar reasons. Not sure how I feel about that. It apparently came with an automatic DNR provision if you crash without a helmet.