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Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

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Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#441

Post by forgottenpass »

downandout wrote: post #359
dotancohen wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly, the best thing to do if you don’t have a high percentage of EU users/customers is to simply block EU IPs. Could you please block my IP address as well: 192.117.111.61 If you feel that being responsible with my personal information and metadata is not worth the trouble, then I don't want to accidentally ever use whatever service you maintain. Thanks.

What an absurd statement. This isn’t about being able to be “irresponsible with [your] personal data”. GDPR compliance is a difficult, expensive, onerous, and uncertain endeavor. Sites that don’t rely on EU visitors for revenue don’t need to expose themselves to the additional liability that the GDPR imposes. That doesn’t mean that sites that haven’t gone to the expensive lengths required under it are going to expose…

>What an absurd statement. This isn’t about being able to be “irresponsible with [your] personal data”. GDPR compliance is a difficult, expensive, onerous, and uncertain endeavor.

Being responsible with someone's personal data is inherently difficult, expensive, onerous and uncertain.

The idea handling personal data wasn't already all of that is exactly the abuse that got us where we are today.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#442

Post by sfifs »

molf wrote: post #73
mstolpm wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d add: Get (documented, active) permission of users to store and use their data, understand that permission is given only for a defined cause/usage (and not indefinitely for everything you right now might not even think of), be prepared to tell users what data you store about them, why and (briefly) how it is used. Be prepared to delete user data on request. Be prepared to show documentation on how you handle the (…

Be careful with hiding everything behind "consent", because consent cannot be a precondition for providing a service. Put differently: if a user does not consent, you cannot refuse them the service if the data you wanted to collect is not strictly necessary to provide the service. The alternative is to only collect data that is strictly necessary to provide the service. In that case GDPR allows you to collect the dat…

Genuine question - What if the service is defined as the publisher letting you read content in exchange for being shown targeted advertising? That IS the business model of most publishers right?

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#443

Post by mi100hael »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #320
vilmosi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an entire industry around parsing logs though. Even "big data" companies outsource their log parsing. Requiring every website to create graphs and stats from log files is not practical, especially with websites that don't have a constant developer on it. Think blogs, recipe websites, restaurants. Google Analytics provides an insanely good value for them and it's a good thing. It's not like pre Google Analytic…

Why do you need those stats anyway? It's not like your webmaster is load-balancing your cluster using Google Analytics feed. Let webmasters use tools for webmasters, and get rid of the marketing crap.

The numbers are hugely valuable for small businesses in particular. It enables A-B testing of pages/posts, insight into which external platforms are providing the most traction, etc.

Essentially, it enables you as a small business to determine where you should be focusing what's probably a very limited budget in order to connect with audiences who are actually interested in your product/service. There's no exploitation or sale of data or misuse of private info involved.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#444

Post by tempestn »

merinowool wrote: post #388
tempestn wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to gain insight into how users interact with your website. This allows improvements to user experience. GA is definitely not only useful for marketing.

You can do user sessions/workshops, which would be more valuable.

Yes, but they don't replace the value of the aggregate data.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#445

Post by nybble41 »

mirimir wrote: post #392
beberlei wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in german law a tax is general purpose, government can use the money to pay for any of their "services". whereas a fee has a specific purpose and cannot be used for anything else.

It's the same in the US. For example, there's a fee for getting a passport, and it's not considered to be a tax.

That's not the same, though, because it is not mandatory to obtain a passport (at least not for everyone—you may need one if you want to travel abroad, but this is viewed by the government as a non-essential privilege and not a right). Broadly speaking, in the US, a "fee" is something you pay in order to receive some form of optional service, such as the issuing of a passport, and a "fine" is something you are ordered to pay as a penalty for breaking the law. Everything else—any payment required of a law-abiding citizen either for simply existing or as a condition for carrying out law-abiding actions (e.g. owning property, earning income)—is a tax.

Of course, sometimes fees and fines can be seen as "stealth taxes" when they intrude too far into everyday life, particularly when state monopolies are involved. For example, the cost of First Class postage with USPS is technically a fee for an optional service, but the USPS monopoly on First Class letter delivery makes it at least partly a tax, to the extent that another carrier might have provided the same service for a lower price in the absence of the monopoly.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#446

Post by mirimir »

nybble41 wrote: post #445
mirimir wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same in the US. For example, there's a fee for getting a passport, and it's not considered to be a tax.

That's not the same, though, because it is not mandatory to obtain a passport (at least not for everyone—you may need one if you want to travel abroad, but this is viewed by the government as a non-essential privilege and not a right). Broadly speaking, in the US, a "fee" is something you pay in order to receive some form of optional service, such as the issuing of a passport, and a "fine" is something you are ordere…

I was going to say driver's license. But I guess that's optional too. There are garbage fees or charges. Sometimes you must pay them, even if you contract with a private hauler. But you need that to get an occupancy permit. Also water/sewer fees. Unless you have a well and septic system.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#447

Post by nybble41 »

geofft wrote: post #273
merinowool wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism is the most free of all, from there the more you turn left the more authoritarian it gets.

Why is democracy not the most free of all? Let one person have one vote - not one dollar have one vote.

To expand on what merinowool said: Under capitalism you are free to do whatever you want with your own property provided you extend the same courtesy to others, and don't interfere either their use of their property. It is easy to see that this is an optimum balance: any more freedom than that would necessarily come at someone else's expense. This is sufficient on its own to say that any other system must be less free than capitalism.

"Democracy" comes in many forms. If a particular implementation of democracy includes strong (effectively absolute) protection for the rights of the minority, including property rights, then it becomes a special case of capitalism where interested people voluntarily choose to address issues of common concern through voting. One example of such a system is a co-op; no one is forced to participate, but those who do become members have equal representation with respect to the disposition of the co-op's common property.

If respect for the minority's rights is subject to majority vote, however, then things which one would be free to do under capitalism—by definition involving only one's own property and that of others who voluntarily choose to participate—become restricted to suit the will of the majority, which plainly makes one less free.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#448

Post by nybble41 »

mirimir wrote: post #446
nybble41 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the same, though, because it is not mandatory to obtain a passport (at least not for everyone—you may need one if you want to travel abroad, but this is viewed by the government as a non-essential privilege and not a right). Broadly speaking, in the US, a "fee" is something you pay in order to receive some form of optional service, such as the issuing of a passport, and a "fine" is something you are ordere…

I was going to say driver's license. But I guess that's optional too. There are garbage fees or charges. Sometimes you must pay them, even if you contract with a private hauler. But you need that to get an occupancy permit. Also water/sewer fees. Unless you have a well and septic system.

Right, the line does get rather blurry when a service provider has the power to compel people to purchase their "service" whether they want to or not. Local governments like to position such payments as "fees"—it makes for better PR—but if there are penalties for opting out (such as not being permitted to occupy your own property) then I would consider it a tax. In the cases you mentioned, for example, there really isn't any significant difference between those mandatory utility "fees" and property taxes.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#449

Post by mirimir »

nybble41 wrote: post #448
mirimir wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to say driver's license. But I guess that's optional too. There are garbage fees or charges. Sometimes you must pay them, even if you contract with a private hauler. But you need that to get an occupancy permit. Also water/sewer fees. Unless you have a well and septic system.

Right, the line does get rather blurry when a service provider has the power to compel people to purchase their "service" whether they want to or not. Local governments like to position such payments as "fees"—it makes for better PR—but if there are penalties for opting out (such as not being permitted to occupy your own property) then I would consider it a tax. In the cases you mentioned, for example, there really i…

> but if there are penalties for opting out (such as not being permitted to occupy your own property) then I would consider it a tax.

I agree.

But I'm guessing that it's the same in Germany. They call them "fees" but they're really taxes. Except that they can't be used for other purposes.

Re: Publishers Haven't Realized How Big a Deal GDPR Is

#450

Post by Eyas »

manjushri wrote: post #428
Eyas wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> News outlets existed before the web, so they're not going to be threatened by breaking the ad-supported website model. If anything, the traditional newspapers will be saved by this, because if free online news disappears, people will start buying newspaper subscriptions again. We're also seeing very concerning trends in the readerships and profitability of print media (because of the Web, many think). So I don't th…

>We're also seeing very concerning trends in the readerships and profitability of print media Why is it "very concerning" (assuming no financial interests) that a legacy form of media is struggly to dominate in terms of profitability?

It's concerning in relation to the gp's post. Online media is having existential problems. The gp's response to this (in part) is that we have had print media for a while. My response is that it is unclear we'll have print media for much longer, so we should still be concerned about online media (otherwise we might end up with no media).
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