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The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

nytimes.com

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Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#181

Post by adrianN »

Bahamut wrote: post #147
wgerard wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I meant that the experience for riders becomes miserable because of the population density (the third paragraph). If delays just meant waiting on an uncrowded platform for an uncrowded train, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a sore point. I certainly agree with you that population density isn't the root cause of the recent subway issues - as evidenced by the fact that Tokyo's train system is working just fine.

As someone who currently is on a train to Osaka from Tokyo & who has lived near NYC, one thing I can say is while Tokyo’s system is well run, the rush hour crunch is real - basically everyone is nut to butt on the train. Sometimes you can’t even get on the train and have to wait for the next one.

Luckily trains in Tokyo run in really short intervals during rush hour.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#182

Post by gberger »

ggm wrote: post #177

I haven't been in NY for over 10 years. When I was there, the subway was fantastic. On time, cheap and clean (ish) Has there been some very rapid drop in service? is this something which forseeably could get better soon, or is it a one-way hole without a huge capital investment?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/20/nyregion/mta-train-delays...

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#183

Post by sah2ed »

feiofh398r39rty wrote: post #108
caminante wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[Sweden's public transit is] no Switzerland or Japan, but it’s what a reasonably well run system looks like. Comparing Sweden to NYC isn't fair. NYC Subway has ~742 stations (v. ~100 in Stockholm) and 1,756M in annual ridership (v. ~328M in Stockholm). This is just for the subway and excludes NY transit bus ridership.

Moscow metro has 250 stations on 3 times as much area (why did NY get to 750 stations?) and annual ridership of 2.4 billion. Train delays are rare, in my experience maybe one delay of 10 minutes a week (not counting the late night-time when intervals can get to 10 mins).

> Moscow metro has 250 stations on 3 times as much area (why did NY get to 750 stations?) and annual ridership of 2.4 billion.

Perhaps area is not a representative metric since you have to factor in population density when deciding where to site stations. Wikipedia says that NYC Subway is 380.2 km (236.2 mi) long while Moscow Metro is 364.9 km (226.7 mi) long, so the two are close in terms of route length. Also, Moscow beats out New York in terms annual ridership: 2.4b vs 1.8b.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_metro_systems#List

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#185

Post by dnautics »

addicted wrote: post #151
wgerard wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I meant that the experience for riders becomes miserable because of the population density (the third paragraph). If delays just meant waiting on an uncrowded platform for an uncrowded train, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a sore point. I certainly agree with you that population density isn't the root cause of the recent subway issues - as evidenced by the fact that Tokyo's train system is working just fine.

The density argument is probably incorrect. The city wasn't significantly less dense 6 years ago and things were a lot better. This is a reflection of under investment and lack of maintenance and upkeep which was exacerbated by Hurrixane Sandy damaging the subway system significantly. It brought the chickens home to roost.

Is it under investment or mismanagement?

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#186

Post by caminante »

tokyoguy wrote: post #126
caminante wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[Sweden's public transit is] no Switzerland or Japan, but it’s what a reasonably well run system looks like. Comparing Sweden to NYC isn't fair. NYC Subway has ~742 stations (v. ~100 in Stockholm) and 1,756M in annual ridership (v. ~328M in Stockholm). This is just for the subway and excludes NY transit bus ridership.

so compare to Tokyo with ~2100 stations 14 billion annual riders and the trains run on time. NYC has zero excuse

Can you provide citation for 2100 stations for Tokyo subway?

The wiki says 179 (1/10th your number).[0]

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#187

Post by mattlondon »

ng12 wrote: post #34
swang wrote: post #31

I took a trip to ny last week and the area i was staying at (near trump tower, off lexington), the closest subways were the 2/3/E/M but apparently on Saturday the 2 and 3 weren't available going downtown, so I had to walk a block or so to get to another line to get where I was going. Then I was in Brooklyn to watch a show that night, we got out around 9PM and was trying to figure out how to get back into the city, th…

> Seemed like the locals knew about this though. I think about this a lot. I know what it means when the AC is rerouted along the F to West 4th and can plan accordingly. How the hell is a tourist supposed to figure out how to get to Fulton?

+1. Signage in NYC metro is woefully poor IME.

In the London Underground pretty much everywhere you look in the carriage, there is a map or route diagram, with clear announcements and digital signage telling you where you are and where the train is going. Same with the platforms - the station name is repeated many many times everywhere on the platform and there are maps, signage and route plans all over the place.

In NYC it seems that maps and signs are kept to a minimum, with some stations just having a singal initial (!) on a grubby ceramic wall tile to identify the station IIRC. The driver might mutter something over the tannoy, but if you're not familiar with the vernacular or plain just don't understand what they said, your often left confused about where you are or if you are going in the right direction.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#188

Post by timlod »

caminante wrote: post #186
tokyoguy wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so compare to Tokyo with ~2100 stations 14 billion annual riders and the trains run on time. NYC has zero excuse

Can you provide citation for 2100 stations for Tokyo subway? The wiki says 179 (1/10th your number).[0] [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro

I'm not sure about the exact numbers, but 'Tokyo Metro' is only a small part of the Tokyo train network.

There is also Toei Subway, JR East trains, Minato-Mirai, ...the list goes on. 2100 may work for the entire metropolitan area of greater Tokyo.

In any case, the city is massive, extremely well connected by public transport, and services millions of people daily without delay.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#189

Post by somberi »

Many readers have quoted the superiority (rightfully so), of Moscow and Tokyo subway systems.

Both these systems operate from around 5am till midnight (approx). NYC Subway operates 24 hours. These few hours downtime, make a huge difference with respect to maintainability and upkeep. These 4 hours each day adds up to ~60 full days of maintenance window.

Maybe NYC can stop the late-night services for a year or so and I am sure better brains than mine have considered this.

On a separate note, it might help to note that usage of NYC Subway has increased by 80% over the last ~20 years (1). It will be interesting to see the same trend for Moscow and Tokyo subways.

NewYorker here and Subway rider here.

(1)https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/28/nyregion/subw...

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#190

Post by jacobush »

BWStearns wrote: post #137
feiofh398r39rty wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moscow metro has 250 stations on 3 times as much area (why did NY get to 750 stations?) and annual ridership of 2.4 billion. Train delays are rare, in my experience maybe one delay of 10 minutes a week (not counting the late night-time when intervals can get to 10 mins).

Moscow was one of the only places I've spent more than a week riding public transportation and not experienced a delay. Honestly confused as to that particular efficiency given the rest of the city/country's inefficiencies but they're doing something right.

Someone should investigate this. It's really, really strange.
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