The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early • Hacker News Board

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#151

Post by addicted » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:38 AM UTC

wgerard wrote: post #103

heliodor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "it's mostly a problem caused by the sheer population density" That might seem like the obvious reason, but it's not the case at all. Read up on the NYC subway and its recent problems and their causes. Politicians use the growth in ridership as a scapegoat. There's more to the story than that. There's no physical/mathematical reason why a metro system of a bigger scale is precluded from running well. Here's an arti…

Sorry, I meant that the experience for riders becomes miserable because of the population density (the third paragraph). If delays just meant waiting on an uncrowded platform for an uncrowded train, it wouldn't be nearly as much of a sore point. I certainly agree with you that population density isn't the root cause of the recent subway issues - as evidenced by the fact that Tokyo's train system is working just fine.

The density argument is probably incorrect. The city wasn't significantly less dense 6 years ago and things were a lot better.

This is a reflection of under investment and lack of maintenance and upkeep which was exacerbated by Hurrixane Sandy damaging the subway system significantly. It brought the chickens home to roost.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#152

Post by jowiar » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:43 AM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #68

ndespres wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just begun commuting into NYC on Amtrak, and it leaves on time to the [i]second[/i]. After years of my commute impacted by subway delays, NJ Transit delays, and an independent ferry service that had its share of problems, Amtrak is really quite refreshing. I had forgotten that things were supposed to be on a schedule! I lived in NYC for 5 years, and had no idea that the subways were on a fixed schedule. I though…

That's odd. I commute by njtransit, but my station is also an Amtrak station, and I often hear of massive (30-90 min) delays.

General rule with Amtrak in the Northeast: - Acela is pretty reliable - NE Regional and Keystone are a bit less so (Acelas seem to get priority when things are going sour) - All bets are off for everything else (i.e. anything not going from Boston to DC, or NY to Harrisburg). Amtrak doesn't own those lines, and massive delays are common.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#153

Post by DrScump » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:44 AM UTC

grandmczeb wrote: post #114

Arbalest wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely enough, even in cities such as mine, which aren't so packed, cycling is still faster. Busses are faster than cars because they don't need to park, but still take 30-35 minutes. I can cycle in in 20 minutes. Note there is no train in my direction. I think this is partially because bicycles are not that popular here, but there are provisions for bikes that go above and beyond cars. Having seen Bruges in Belgi…

I live in Palo Alto and this is frequently true even though biking is definitely an afterthought in most cases. By car, I can get to work in about 30 min (+/-10 with traffic) but can bike there in consistency less than 20.

Palo Alto biking is helped by the pedestrian/bike bridges that join it to Menlo Park and Mountain View on either side and by Bryant St. being blocked off every couple of blocks, making it a bike thoroughfare.

Years ago, I used to bike from Sunnyvale to Menlo Park once or twice a week, and 85% of the route was away from traffic. The delay was in crossing Embarcadero.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#154

Post by jowiar » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:45 AM UTC

mabbo wrote: post #47

chrischen wrote: post #2

What does it exactly mean for a subway that's supposed to run every 3-5 minutes to be "late"? Are NY metro trains so infrequent that a schedule is that important?

It's a cascading failure issue. Toronto has the same problem, on a smaller scale. What I see here: Step 1: a train gets delayed for a minute somewhere on the line. A dozen common reasons exist- someone becomes ill, mechanical issue, debris on the tracks, etc. Step 2: Because it's rush hour, there's minimal buffer time between trains so the train behind it must also stop (and the one behind it, and the one behind it,…

http://setosa.io/bus/ is my favorite demonstration of this.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#155

Post by DrScump » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:46 AM UTC

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #73

wgerard wrote: post #24

It's interesting seeing the ways people work around this, even for people who don't have hard start/end times (e.g. tech employees). I have one friend who uses Citi Bike to get to important meetings I think people who don't live in the city don't realize how (relatively) stressful it can be when the trains are late. Riding the train during peak hours is already a pretty stressful experience: The sardine analogy is ve…

Reading this doubly reinforces how good it is in Sweden where I live now. While trains and buses are notoriously delayed (somewhat frequently), I can look on a phone app and tell when the next one will arrive +- 1 minute. It’s no Switzerland or Japan, but it’s what a reasonably well run system looks like.

Caltrain (on the SF peninsula) has a great Caltraindroid app that contains the schedules in a highly intuitive interface and with no privacy suckage.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#156

Post by ng12 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

parent5446 wrote: post #132

pmiller2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works great, assuming I can get someone to actually take me across the bridge (I had to complain to Lyft about this before), and spend 7-10x as much as BART would cost.

One of the sole advantages of NYC taxis: they are required by law to take you anywhere within city limits you ask.

Yes, and an NYC cabbie would _never_ willingly ignore a regulation like that.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#157

Post by squiggleblaz » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 1:47 AM UTC

apaprocki wrote: post #142

tokyoguy wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is no excuse. it's called maintenance. other cities manage to maintain their transit system . NYC has zero excuse . See Tokyo's transit history for how often they've upgrade the entire system a piece at a time.

... and do most of those upgrades take place when the Tokyo subway shuts down each night between 1am and 5am? It's hard to replace signal systems on tracks with a train passing every few minutes.

So if the Tokyo subway shuts down each night between 1am and 5am, why can't the NYC subway shut parts down periodically? It's common here in Melbourne to have whole lines shut down during the summer for maintenance or other service changes (e.g. removing level crossings). We hate it but we cope.

There's literally no excuse for not maintaining your infrastructure. Every probably can be solved. Shut down a line every night till the job is done. Or shut it down for a day or two. Is the line integrated with others? Maybe you'll have to shut down three or four lines. People will hate it. But if it avoids months and months of problems to have a few days, they'll cope.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#158

Post by evincarofautumn » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:15 AM UTC

Similarly, I’ve come to rely on BART being late—although instead of arriving too early, I’m more likely to arrive late when I bet on a few minutes to spare, but the train happens to be running on time…and then end up working later to compensate.

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#159

Post by squiggleblaz » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #21

closeparen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're late because they're moving slower and randomly-but-frequently stopping between stations.

Most infuriating is when you're on an express that is passed by a local and then forced to stop and wait for the other train to clear.

More infuriating than that is when you accidentally catch an express that is behind a local and stops at the station you want for five minutes but doesn't open the doors. I've never been to NYC, but that's happened to me sometimes. It's also annoying when it happens to someone else who's like "let me off let me off"

Re: The Subway Is So Late, It’s Making New Yorkers Early

#160

Post by pmiller2 » Mon, Apr 09, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

yardie wrote: post #122

pmiller2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do people get home from the bars? That's my major complaint about BART, that it stops running too early. If I'm out late enough in the city, I can't return to the East Bay easily, so I either end up stressing to get the last train, or end up having to use my car, which has its own stress involved.

Night bus. The MTA has more than trains.

Sure, theoretically, that would work, if I were near either of the 2 bus stops in SF that serve the line I'd need to take. Those buses also only run every 20 minutes when they're on schedule. It's not a great solution.