Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 196 posts

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#61

Post by bogomipz »

cletus wrote: post #2

Good. If nothing else, maybe it’ll help instill values of financial responsibility (I watched a report on crippling student debt where a woman went $150k in debt to get a theatre arts degree from NYU and now works as a waitress). There are actually lots of options to get a good education without breaking the bank. Transfer from community college is just one. Another is becoming a state resident for good state schools…

>"Good. If nothing else, maybe it’ll help instill values of financial responsibility (I watched a report on crippling student debt where a woman went $150k in debt to get a theatre arts degree from NYU and now works as a waitress)."

Shouldn't that be values of financial "viability."?

Most people don't want to becomes dead beats on their debt.

Unfortunately here's a whole system in place that encourages 18 year olds to take on hundred of thousands in dollars in debt in order to purse a degree which has very few professional prospects of earning enough to pay that money back to the lender(s.) Practically speaking it's debt-peonage.

To contrast to other forms of loans - if I earn $30K a year and apply for a mortgage for a house costing $800k I likely will turned down by the lending institution since I lack the means to meet those mortgage payments. In other words I am not a good risk.

However the same lending institution will gladly allow me to borrow $260K for 4 years of NYU tuition in order to obtain a degree in Drama that I will have almost no chance of being able to pay back.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#62

Post by w8rbt »

funduni wrote: post #17
swiley wrote: post #13

If you go to a four year university with no credits at all and you're not getting a full ride, you're doing it wrong.

If you make students take on crippling debt to obtain an education, you’re doing it wrong.

No one has made students do anything. These are choices. Some choices cost more than others. You should pick one that you can afford and that has a future income potential.

And, there are some top quality programs that are very affordable. You can get a Masters in CS from Georgia Tech (top 10 CS program in the USA) for between 6K and 10K total.

Online, cheap and elite: https://www.insidehighered.com/digital-learning/article/2018...

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#63

Post by throwawayjava »

jdavis703 wrote: post #48
internetman55 wrote: post #7

That's what I did and it was lit. Worked at kmart for a year then pretty much paid my tuition out of savings. Stood way out in all my classes. Got transfer scholarship to my state flagship. If money isn't an issue I guess four years could be better, but it seems pretty good to use CCs.

Maybe you're opposed to using government aid which is fine; but if you had to work to pay for community college you probably could've qualified for Pell Grants that would have paid for everything since community college is so cheap.

> Maybe you're opposed to using government aid which is fine

It's also worth pointing out that Pell Grants for CC tuition often constitute less public money than you were consuming during K-12.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#64

Post by bogomipz »

golergka wrote: post #9
cletus wrote: post #2

Good. If nothing else, maybe it’ll help instill values of financial responsibility (I watched a report on crippling student debt where a woman went $150k in debt to get a theatre arts degree from NYU and now works as a waitress). There are actually lots of options to get a good education without breaking the bank. Transfer from community college is just one. Another is becoming a state resident for good state schools…

Honestly, I can't understand how people can sympathize with college students going into crippling debt any more than a proverbial Chinese teen who sold his kidney to purchase an iPhone (this news story from a couple of years ago probably was fake anyway). Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

>"Honestly, I can't understand how people can sympathize with college students going into crippling debt ..."

Because they are 18 years old and lack any life experience when they agree to take on this debt. And they are assured by smiling loan officers and their college's financial aid office that "everything is fine."

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#65

Post by throwawayjava »

Dowwie wrote: post #22

MOOCs have been developing en masse for the last 6-7 years. What, aside from the obvious associates degree at completion and an accelerated pathway to a bachelors degree from a 4-year program, does community college provide that MOOC micro-programs do not? It seems reasonable to assume that MOOC service providers are establishing pathways to undergraduate programs just as community colleges do. Are the value gaps nar…

> What, aside from the obvious associates degree at completion and an accelerated pathway to a bachelors degree from a 4-year program, does community college provide that MOOC micro-programs do not?

CCs offer 2 tracks.

Track 1: college prep. Students take a year or two of courses and then transfer to a 4 year institution.

For this track, the "trustworthy signal of competence" is by far the most important aspect of the product. So for CCs offering this track, your question is a bit ill-formed. You're basically asking "aside from the most important thing, what else is important?"

Track 2: Terminal associates degrees for students who will enter a trade immediately out of CC.

For this track, at least sometimes, MOOCs don't work as well because you need hands-on experience. Often, you also need connections to local institutions (for setting up volunteer hours and for job placement). IMO MOOCs shouldn't even try to focus on this track, at least for certain trades like nursing.

> Are the value gaps narrowing?

For track 2, it depends on the trade, but mostly no.

For track 1, MOOCs need to figure out the assessment problem and provide compelling evidence to higher ed that completing a MOOC is a strong signal of future success.

Finally, it's worth pointing out that MOOCs work well for some types of students (I wish they had been an option for me), but do not work at all for other types of students.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#66

Post by munin »

Dowwie wrote: post #22

MOOCs have been developing en masse for the last 6-7 years. What, aside from the obvious associates degree at completion and an accelerated pathway to a bachelors degree from a 4-year program, does community college provide that MOOC micro-programs do not? It seems reasonable to assume that MOOC service providers are establishing pathways to undergraduate programs just as community colleges do. Are the value gaps nar…

At a CC, you're in a class of between 10 and 30 people with immediate access to the instructor, who is usually an expert and a dedicated educator that wants to help you understand the material and will work with you in and outside of class in small groups or one on one.

In a MOOC, you're one of 10,000 students submitting questions onto a web forum and taking multiple choice tests.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#67

Post by compton_effect »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #16

I went to a community college and transferred to a prestigious public university. In my experience, if you find a good community college, the high volume classes tend to be better than they are at a big school. There are usually less than 50 students (vs up to 400), the teachers actually enjoy teaching, and the material is easy enough that the teachers understand it just as well as top tier professors. Honestly, Cali…

I would so most states are setup where if you transfer from a CC to a public state school, you basically have everything transfer and can finish all your schooling in 4 years.

I'm from Maryland, and our CC system, at least for my county, is great. We even had a pretty good career center. Knew many people who where able to get internships at places like NASA or NIH though the community college.

I did my first two years of electrical engineering at CC and it was great. Pretty much all my professors in EE classes had PhD's in the field and were of comparable quality to the ones at my 4 year university. Plus, since your in a class of only like 20 kids, you get a much better relationship. Had a few help me with a getting an internship sophomore year.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#68

Post by golergka »

h0p3 wrote: post #20
golergka wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I can't understand how people can sympathize with college students going into crippling debt any more than a proverbial Chinese teen who sold his kidney to purchase an iPhone (this news story from a couple of years ago probably was fake anyway). Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Try empathizing instead of merely sympathizing.

I can emphasize with anyone, up to Hitler. (Full disclosure, have several Holocaust survivors in my family). Doesn't mean I will sympathize with them.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#69

Post by ams6110 »

wil421 wrote: post #53
maxerickson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College. I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

High schools may have trouble finding teachers who are qualified to teach advanced subjects, also they may not have enough students to really justify a class at that level.

Whereas a Community College may have an easier time finding instructors, since there aren't licensing rules or a need to employ the instructor full-time. Also they draw from a wider student population so may not have as much difficulty filling a class.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#70

Post by scarface74 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #42
scarface74 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unable to "empathize" with people early in my career who were complaining about "crippling student loan debt" that were sitting right next to me, making the same amount I was when I went to an unknown state college and graduated with no debt. It especially makes no sense to me for a resident of GA to ever go to a private college when you can get free tuition via the HOPE scholarship to go to well known public s…

I don't know what it's like in the US but in the UK there is a relentless pressure on students to go to University and take on huge debts. There aren't many people at age 18 who have the ability to ignore what every adult around them is telling them and say no.

I'm assuming an 18 year old has parents that should be guiding them.
Post reply on HN