Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges • Hacker News Board

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#51

Post by bogomipz » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #31

CuriouslyC wrote: post #16

I went to a community college and transferred to a prestigious public university. In my experience, if you find a good community college, the high volume classes tend to be better than they are at a big school. There are usually less than 50 students (vs up to 400), the teachers actually enjoy teaching, and the material is easy enough that the teachers understand it just as well as top tier professors. Honestly, Cali…

Why does the community college need to be "good"? Mostly you take classes there that have nothing to do with your major.

Isn't that kind of like saying core curriculum isn't important?

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#52

Post by gscott » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #34

mattnguyen wrote: post #10

My older sibling and I both grew up in a single-parent household. Since we were tight on money, my sister decided to go to community college after high school in part to look after me while our parent worked. After two years, my sibling transferred with a full ride to a good university. Looking to my sibling's experience, I decided to leave high school when I turned 16 to attend community college and accrue transfer…

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

The local 2 year college nearby created a Charter High School for grades 11-12 where there High School students take college classes to count for both college and high school. It was good for my son who graduated a few years ago. More 2 year colleges might have similar programs I am not sure http://middlecollege.guhsd.net/

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#53

Post by wil421 » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #34

mattnguyen wrote: post #10

My older sibling and I both grew up in a single-parent household. Since we were tight on money, my sister decided to go to community college after high school in part to look after me while our parent worked. After two years, my sibling transferred with a full ride to a good university. Looking to my sibling's experience, I decided to leave high school when I turned 16 to attend community college and accrue transfer…

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College.

I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#54

Post by kelukelugames » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

I took classes at the local juco as a high school students. I met three types of people. The first were kids like me who all ended up at good schools. The second were older, actually junior college students. They were smart and worked hard. They ended up at decent schools too. The last were people didn't do well. That was either due to motivation or other factors.

The middle group was the smallest by size.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#55

Post by maxerickson » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #53

maxerickson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College. I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

I didn't say that. I said it should be available to every student, which is not the case.

It's directly a failure of the primary education system, but it is more a failure of leadership and resources than anything else.

As far as NCLB, the response to it is a bigger problem than the law. There's nothing in it stopping states from investing in both helping underachieving students and in helping other students get ahead. NCLB didn't tell Oklahoma to slash taxes and burn their schools.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#56

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #25

CuriouslyC wrote: post #16

I went to a community college and transferred to a prestigious public university. In my experience, if you find a good community college, the high volume classes tend to be better than they are at a big school. There are usually less than 50 students (vs up to 400), the teachers actually enjoy teaching, and the material is easy enough that the teachers understand it just as well as top tier professors. Honestly, Cali…

In Wisconsin you could transfer all classes from the two year schools to the 4 year schools and the pricing was definitely much better. I don't know for sure if that is still the case though. But it also had the advantage of being taught by the actual professor and not some TA. When I transferred to a private school I was a bit older so they really gave some leeway in how they transferrey credits. I am guessing they…

[deleted]

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#57

Post by throwawayjava » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:55 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #53

maxerickson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College. I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

> Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School

Many affluent high schools have an abundance of AP/IB courses. Many high schools also have additional college-credit courses (where the high school acts as a sort of proxy for a local college, often a community college). At a "good" high school, students can combine all of these options to have not just a year, but even junior or senior standing by the time they start college.

There are three problems with this approach:

1. Not all high schools are affluent / have their crap together enough to offer these options.

2. students need to be prepared. Enough of them that you can fill a course. This can be a barrier in less affluent areas.

3. Students have to know about this option, usually starting in middle school so that they can begin working ahead early (e.g., finish algebra in middle school).

> ...and college

The pattern here seems to be picking the college vs. picking the more advanced courses at the college. So, you don't take "more advanced couses at regional State campus"; instead, you go to (your field's equivalent of) MIT/Stanford/Berkeley/CMU. Or at least the state flagship. C.f., algorithms at an elite university vs. algorithms at the branch campus of a middling state system. The differences in both depth (rigor) and bredth are, in many cases, quite extraordinary.

> No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

Do you have any data to justify this assertion? AP offerings have increased since NCLB was enacted.

I don't disagree with you that NCLB is a net harm, but I don't think it's accurate to place the blame there for this particular problem. (Also, whenever NCLB comes up, it's worth pointing out that states bear a lot of responsibility -- they have quite a bit of leeway in how NCLB is implemented.)

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#58

Post by analog31 » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

paulie_a wrote: post #25

CuriouslyC wrote: post #16

I went to a community college and transferred to a prestigious public university. In my experience, if you find a good community college, the high volume classes tend to be better than they are at a big school. There are usually less than 50 students (vs up to 400), the teachers actually enjoy teaching, and the material is easy enough that the teachers understand it just as well as top tier professors. Honestly, Cali…

In Wisconsin you could transfer all classes from the two year schools to the 4 year schools and the pricing was definitely much better. I don't know for sure if that is still the case though. But it also had the advantage of being taught by the actual professor and not some TA. When I transferred to a private school I was a bit older so they really gave some leeway in how they transferrey credits. I am guessing they…

I live in WI, and this is still the case.

Historically, the community and tech college teachers were unionized, so it attracted people who wanted to make a career of teaching. They were actually better off than the adjuncts who were teaching the same courses at the university. When the state broke the public sector unions a few years ago, a lot of teachers took early retirement (five or six of my friends), and I don't know how this will affect things going forward.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#59

Post by lotsofpulp » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #26

swiley wrote: post #13

If you go to a four year university with no credits at all and you're not getting a full ride, you're doing it wrong.

While I support other choices, I went to MIT all years without a full scholarship and would absolutely do it that way again.

The networking and branding opportunities at elite schools make them worth almost any price compared to other schools.

Re: Middle-Class Families Increasingly Look to Community Colleges

#60

Post by arca_vorago » Sun, Apr 08, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

wil421 wrote: post #53

maxerickson wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a year (or more) of college credits upon high school graduation should be one of the education tracks available to every student. It's a massive failure of imagination that this isn't already the case.

Why should you have to get credits before you leave High School? Just teach more advanced subjects in both High School and College. I agree with what you are saying but I think it’s a product of a failure somewhere else in the education system. No child left behind and other programs hinder education by applying one size fits all policies.

You shouldn't have to, but it should be offered for multiple reasons. It eases the hs college transition, it gets you a head start on prereqs and credits, among other things.

I will be forever grateful that my high school encouraged this.