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Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

theguardian.com

181–190 of 368 posts

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#181
post #163
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The richest pay the vast majority of the tax in the US, regardless of whether they work. And the very richest in the US almost all got there by working, many of them by starting huge companies.

Marxist reverence for the proletariat has been an enduring concept. The problem is that nobody has actually defined who the prols are - are they the factory workers? Entrepreneurs? Teachers? Accountants? Lawyers? Engineers? Civil servants? The US economy is crazy diverse. There really is no such thing as a unified working class struggling against "the man".

[deleted]

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#182
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It couldn't possibly not matter, because wealth is not only standard of living, but also power. At the highest level, the wealthy are not simply comfortable. They have the power to shape and organize aspects of the economy, supply chain, and the laws. That has to matter in some way beyond having one's material needs met or not.

That's a good argument, and to many it's an argument for wealth redistribution. I prefer to look at it instead as an argument for limiting the powers of government in order to limit its susceptibility to corruption.

The government is a small part of the state. The police and armed forces are part of the state, and can be corrupted, even if the government is impotent. All the individual rights and guarantees in the world are of no help to you, if the generals or police chiefs are corrupt.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#183
post #60

Steven Pinker's new book, Enlightenment Now, has a pretty compelling section on wealth/income inequality. The basic position - and I think the data supports this - is that it really doesn't matter what the top 1% are doing so long as the bottom half are seeing improved living conditions. Furthermore, wealth isn't a static I win/you lose proposition - much of that wealth has been created in recent history. People spen…

> People spend less as a percentage of income on food and housing, have better access to healthcare, and more leisure time than ever before

A critical phrase uttered without any evidence. I urge you to look at the slice of people for whom housing and healthcare are increasingly out of reach, not just the globalization fairy tale you would like to focus on in your post.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#184
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine you and I cannot afford each others services because all of the money is owned by those greedy 1%. So like slaves, we sweat away for them. Day in. Day out. But if we agree on a new currency where you and I own 100000 coins each, we can happily start working for each other.

We can already vote in people who agree to redistribute the currency we already have. This doesn't appear any more revolutionary or likely. Why would any of the people who own real resources like deeds, stocks, stores, things agree to give them to you?

Say you are a designer and I am a coder. As soon as we have a common currency, we can start working for each other. No voting or stores needed.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#185
post #60

Steven Pinker's new book, Enlightenment Now, has a pretty compelling section on wealth/income inequality. The basic position - and I think the data supports this - is that it really doesn't matter what the top 1% are doing so long as the bottom half are seeing improved living conditions. Furthermore, wealth isn't a static I win/you lose proposition - much of that wealth has been created in recent history. People spen…

There's a lot to agree with, for example the things Pinker talks about and the fact that wealth is not necessarily a zero sum game. However...income inequality by itself is a problem. Hmm...I thought it was one of Hans Rosling's (amazing) TED talks, but now I just see Richard Wilkinson's talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilkinson Anyway, the fascinating thing is that everything gets worse in a country when the…

I think this is fundamentally the correct point of view, however my argument would be that it's best to focus on improving the lives of the bottom half than bemoaning the wealth of the top 1%. This can be accomplished through progressive taxation and the like, which as a secondary benefit does reduce inequality.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#186
post #11
post #2

So when do we get trickled down on exactly?

Trickle-down theory is accurate! It's just not necessarily money that's raining down on our heads. Less snarkily: Piketty observes that reinvested capital accumulates at a faster rate than labour. Also, we have no global taxation system, so capital flows through the cracks into regimes with the lowest tax rate -- meanwhile, labour is pinned down by strict laws restricting immigration, and mostly can't go where wages…

Just curious - where agriculture labour would go if there would be no strict immigration laws?

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#187
post #51

Someone else on HN commented that the poor need to stop reproducing in order to improve equality. At first I found the comment kind of troubling, but the more I think about it the more it seems to make sense. Watching this video kind of backs up the point to a degree, even though the topic is immigration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPjzfGChGlE Can someone come back with a decent counterargument? I haven't been a…

His argument is akin to arguing that the Soviets lost WWII because they lost so many more soldiers than the Germans. But that's not what happened. The Germans might have had a higher score, but the Red Army still pushed them all the way back to Berlin and Hitler died in a bunker. Success is measured in achievements, not by lack of failure.

For the poor to stop breeding would be ceding their one and only competitive advantage. Humans, and for that matter, life on Earth in general, aren't "judged" (in the sense that extinction/flourishing is a judgment) based on how many failed organisms they produce. Rather, that determination is based on how many successful organisms are produced.

As residents of richer countries, we're conditioned to breed at or around the replacement level and to view each failure as a catastrophe. So when we see those 80 gum balls being added each year to his misery containers, we're viewing it through the lens of seeing the failure. But in poorer countries, people adapt to the increased chance of failure by having more kids. They breed well above the replacement level knowing that, in all likelihood, not all of those kids will succeed. From that perspective, you need to focus on that 1 or 2 gum balls being allowed into the richer countries. That's the success. And having fewer kids runs contrary to that goal.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#188
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It couldn't possibly not matter, because wealth is not only standard of living, but also power. At the highest level, the wealthy are not simply comfortable. They have the power to shape and organize aspects of the economy, supply chain, and the laws. That has to matter in some way beyond having one's material needs met or not.

That's a good argument, and to many it's an argument for wealth redistribution. I prefer to look at it instead as an argument for limiting the powers of government in order to limit its susceptibility to corruption.

Capital concentration increases the impact of capital mis-allocation.

A market economy is more efficient than a command economy. A market with only one capitalist is a de facto command economy.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#189
post #159
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a static group. Those in the 1% are not the same group over the following years. This has been well established. For another simple example, look at the Fortune 500 of today vs 20 years ago. Very few companies remain, it’s still very much fluid.

I think it's more relevant that the vast majority will never be in the group, than that the group's roster changes.

By definition, only 1% of people can be in the 1%...

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#190
post #60

Steven Pinker's new book, Enlightenment Now, has a pretty compelling section on wealth/income inequality. The basic position - and I think the data supports this - is that it really doesn't matter what the top 1% are doing so long as the bottom half are seeing improved living conditions. Furthermore, wealth isn't a static I win/you lose proposition - much of that wealth has been created in recent history. People spen…

> It just spurs on class resentment which is, if history is any guide, just about the worst way to go about things possible. Indeed, the worst thing slaves could do is to resent against their masters. I am sure there must have been a better way.

This is a classic logical fallacy called an "Appeal to Extremes" (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFalla...).

It is about as compelling as stomping your feet and yelling at the top of your lungs.

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