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Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

theguardian.com

141–150 of 368 posts

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#141

Top 1% worldwide is not a great statistic. In many US cities that is just above poverty due to CoL at ~32k.

Poverty is relative to local cost levels and living standards.

It's the level at which, within your local market, essentials of life are not attainable.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between someone physically constraining you so that you can't eat and from not having enough money to eat, but that doesn't mean the one is free in the latter case. Indeed, presumably one does not want to be physically stopped from eating because one wants to eat - i.e. substantively we want to be free to do things, and can only do things if society grants us the means to. What are 'the laws of n…

The laws of nature are simply that life is inherently a struggle. Imagine being born on a planet with no-one else, if you don't gather food and build shelter you will die. You are constantly on a path of poverty and death unless you fight against it. Since humans are social creatures that love each other we don't like letting that happen to others even if they can't create enough value to sustain themselves. But once…

One could just as well make the opposite argument (and many have, mostly famously Rousseau): humans originally lived in a condition of equanimity and plenty and it was the development of complex social organisation and property which led to all of the maladies which you ascribe to 'the laws of nature'. IMO there is no 'neutral' description of the abstract nature of the social condition as such.

All forms of social organisation require force. Capitalism is based on a particular configuration of property and contract relations established and upheld through coercion. It is not 'neutral' or 'natural'.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#143
post #119
post #60

Steven Pinker's new book, Enlightenment Now, has a pretty compelling section on wealth/income inequality. The basic position - and I think the data supports this - is that it really doesn't matter what the top 1% are doing so long as the bottom half are seeing improved living conditions. Furthermore, wealth isn't a static I win/you lose proposition - much of that wealth has been created in recent history. People spen…

I think the biggest mistake people make when counting this wealth is that if it is hoarded and never spent then it might as well not exist and should be viewed as anti-inflationary. What if all the billionaires in the world decided 'let me just hit delete on all of the zeroes in my bank account' what affect would that have on the rest of the world?

Not so much hoarded as invested. Warren Buffet primarily keeps his money in BerkHa stock, which itself puts its money to work employing nearly half a million people.

If the wealthiest 1% had their assets wiped out tomorrow, most of us wouldn’t have a job the next day.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#144
post #96
post #60

Steven Pinker's new book, Enlightenment Now, has a pretty compelling section on wealth/income inequality. The basic position - and I think the data supports this - is that it really doesn't matter what the top 1% are doing so long as the bottom half are seeing improved living conditions. Furthermore, wealth isn't a static I win/you lose proposition - much of that wealth has been created in recent history. People spen…

I haven't read Pinker's book and he is certainly more knowledgeable than I am on the topic. What does he say about attitudes like "keeping up with the Joneses", jealousy, and similar emotions? It seems to me that most people tend toward jealousy and compare themselves to those who are better off rather than those who are worse off. I've been under the impression that disparity, inequality in and of itself is a proble…

I think the picture is perhaps more muddy than it's made out to be re: "keeping up with the joneses". I can't really speak confidently to the research from memory, but Pinker does address this specifically.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#145
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its profoundly unclear how merely throwing the word blockchain does anything useful for equality. Having a different way to record ownership doesn't change how ownership is distributed. Logically the blockchain would be a good way to record ownership in a more equal society in same fashion as forks and bricks would be useful tools in a new and more equal society.

Imagine you and I cannot afford each others services because all of the money is owned by those greedy 1%. So like slaves, we sweat away for them. Day in. Day out. But if we agree on a new currency where you and I own 100000 coins each, we can happily start working for each other.

We can already vote in people who agree to redistribute the currency we already have.

This doesn't appear any more revolutionary or likely. Why would any of the people who own real resources like deeds, stocks, stores, things agree to give them to you?

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#146
post #26

Top 1% worldwide is not a great statistic. In many US cities that is just above poverty due to CoL at ~32k.

Is there a better one instead? Or is it useless to measure global inequality and weatlh accumulation? Is there a local/national/global threshold that would make you concerned?

I think quality of life also plays a role. If you live in the bay area and make $100k but live in a cramped appt with 2 others and a long commute while someone in the midwest makes $50k but owns a spacious house and a low traffic commute, who is really better off?

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#147
post #82
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a subreddit for what you're looking for: https://reddit.com/r/changemyview Lots of interesting debate happens there.

I might do, though I find the discussion generally of a higher quality here than on reddit.

You might be pleasantly surprised. There are focused subreddits which are quite ruthless and thorough in their moderation style. For example, the modal discussion on /r/NeutralPolitics is far more productive and informed than on Hacker News. /r/AskHistorians is similarly remarkable. These subreddits require insightful commentary with citations to scholarly sources - anecdata, off-topic banter and trolling are virtually eradicated.

Hacker News fosters higher quality discussion than most subreddits because it's smaller and has a much higher floor for the scope successful moderation. But look at this thread: people are throwing around uninformed opinions about basic economics left and right. Outside of technical disussion, Hacker News discussions often fracture into arguments where people talk past each other and reinvent entire fields from first principles.

I think HN is nearly as good as you can expect a general discussion forum to be, but the focused, well-moderated subreddits for specific topics are clearly better for useful discussion.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#148
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see that as a counterargument, more of a strawman. Eugenics is based on the gene pool not on relative levels of wealth (as I understand it). Honestly, if you live in desperate poverty, why would you want to bring a child into the world knowing the amount of suffering that its is likely to live through? Yet the poorest people seem to be the most likely to have the most children. Maybe another way of phrasing t…

Most people who are that poor are not educated enough about reproduction to prevent childbirth due to lack of sexual contraceptives or information about safe-sex. They are born to absolute poverty and know little outside of their little town or country. Sex to them might just be seen as something you do with little to no consequence or something that just comes easily. What you see as suffering might be seen as norma…

It might also be that having kids increases your economic prosperity in the case of many poor individuals - extra manual labour on a farm, additional household income, and a retirement strategy for when you are older and incapable of supporting yourself independently.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#149
post #127
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does limiting government limit the powers of the wealthy? It would limit one channel for them to exercise their power, but other channels like corporate control would exist.

I believe we are going to find it increasingly essential to view corporations as a second government that has a particular relationship with the nominal one.

The key difference is that you can opt out of your relationship with one, but not the other.

At least they tend to lock horns. To the extent that the two collaborate, we should be suspicious.

Re: Richest 1% on target to own two-thirds of all wealth by 2030

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re at the point now where labels such as “capitalist” and “communist” is meaningless. China is a purported communist country but is minting more billionaires per year than any other country.

You have it wrong. China is a dictatorship that its billionaires are trying to escape, less they get struck down by Xi jingping’s anti corruption drive

That’s pretty much been the story of all communist countries. Rather than say they’re “doing it wrong”, we should ask ourselves why such methods of government tends to create such destructive environments.
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