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China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

nytimes.com

51–60 of 150 posts

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#51

Is censorship even effective? I'd love to see an academic treatment of the reality of censorship minus the obvious moral qualms. I suppose it's probably an impossible thing to measure.

I don't think that would be impossible to measure. Would you be more interested in a controlled experiment or more of a study on real world censorship?

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The church has literally zero power to do anything in the UK. We live in secular societies and I cannot believe your statement is provably true. No church/religion will ever go up against the power of the Chinese state, unless God herself returns to Earth...

> The church has literally zero power to do anything in the UK. That's not for lack of trying and a direct consequence of doing exactly that.[1] Also: (edit: Northern) Ireland is very much a part of the UK and the church has a lot of power there. > We live in secular societies and I cannot believe your statement is provably true. You don't have to believe it, that's fine by me. Having lived in Romania and seeing a po…

Only a small and bitterly disputed slice of Ireland is part of the UK.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#54

Is censorship even effective? I'd love to see an academic treatment of the reality of censorship minus the obvious moral qualms. I suppose it's probably an impossible thing to measure.

Censorship in China is the complementing arm of propaganda and yes it is effective. Control information and you control the people.

https://www.theatlantic.com/china/archive/2013/09/what-makes...

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#55
post #3

What are the Chinese government so scared of! They have complete control in a way not possible in the West, I can’t really foresee how the state would be overthrown by the people there?

Popular overthrow of the government is an integral part of the historiography of China. While China never (except for very briefly) had democracy, ever since its first dynasties there was the idea of the "Mandate of Heaven". Emperors ruled via that mandate but unlike the Western "Divine Rights", the mandate can be lost if the emperor does a bad job. How? A popular revolt. Emperors can rule with absolute power but the people has the "right" to overthrow him. A revolt that is successful is considered blessed by heaven. Most Chinese dynasties are the results of popular revolts. This what gives rise to the dynastic cycle of China. Chinese governments of the past weren't any less powerful in regards to what they can do but that has never stopped them from being overthrown.

The escape from this cycle is a non-violent change of government, i.e. democracy, but China just took a giant step in the opposite direction by getting rid of term limits. So back to the cycles!

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#56

Any Chinese interested in reading a Bible will just download it. Restricting access to the printed version will have very little impact and will likely increase demand, because banning books usually does that.

I don't think The Streisand effect applies here. It's not that people don't know what the Bible is...anyone who is looking to buy one clearly does.

It's that those who are Christian can't freely practice their religion.

Then there's the whole downloading an illegal book getting you into trouble angle, too.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#57
post #18

This is bad. I get that religion has taboos, but religion also has an influence on morals. Yes, there are ways to be a good moral person without the Bible, but are we really giving people agency and the ability to choose if they are sensored? Human rights are human rights and as a human I should have the right to obtain a Bible if I so chose and live the consequences there of.

I think you mean "there are ways to be a good moral person even with the Bible," ? remember that every religion teaches intolerance to other beliefs. if not directly by simply suggesting it is the only truth.

> every religion teaches intolerance to other beliefs.

Not so. Big difference (and spectrum) between a Buddhist saying "I think my way is better, try it for yourself, or don't!" and a (insert fundamentalist sect here) saying "You deserve to die if you don't think like me." You don't even have to be religious to claim the latter, some political belief systems will also do just fine.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#58

Its worth noting the absolutely insane impact that cargo cult Christianity had on China which arguably caused the Chinese civil war. That might be some context as to why Christianity has been singled out? EDIT: why would you downvote this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom From the source: > A self-proclaimed convert to Christianity, Hong Xiuquan ... [claimed] ... that he was the second son of Go…

You're being down-voted because your comment can be construed as justification. Which, if it is, is absolutely deplorable.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#59

Any Chinese interested in reading a Bible will just download it. Restricting access to the printed version will have very little impact and will likely increase demand, because banning books usually does that.

I would not underestimate the ability of the Chinese government to control what people can access online.

[deleted]

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#60
It's important to note, that while it is now illegal to buy the Bible online in China....

They are still allowed to purchase the Bible from official church bookstores.

This is probably more about finding out exactly how many Bibles are being sold in the country rather than completely stopping them from being sold.

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