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A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

bbc.co.uk

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Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#21

Post by placebo »

jstanley wrote: post #13
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #2

Let me try an optimistic thought experiment. Roughly around the end of the Napoleonic era, call it 1815, 9/10ths of humans lives in what we would call abject poverty. today it is reversed and only 1/10th does. (This is still a travesty, but it is objectively better) In that period we have seen incredible technological, political and economic improvements. But it's not clear if we will continue to see them "we might h…

People have been saying "we might have invented everything" for hundreds of years. I like the "invention wavefront" analogy, but I unfortunately can't remember where I learnt it. Imagine the high-dimensional space of all possible things that can be invented. In the "centre" of the space is a hypersphere containing everything that has been invented to date. Every new invention is invented by "poking outwards" in one s…

For all practical purposes, I agree with the analogy, but would like to point out that the box might not be infinite so there could be limits to invention.

Take a chess game as an example. No one would say there weren't creative inventions regarding tactics and strategies to win, but the bottom line is that the number of possible chess games, no matter how staggeringly huge, is still finite. In the end, no matter how intelligent the players, there will be a point were nothing will be left to be invented, so perhaps life is also a solved game in that respect.

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#22

Post by 52-6F-62 »

lawlessone wrote: post #16
btcindivist wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only we didn't waste all of the antibiotics on non-human animals. Such a bad use of brilliant biotechnology.

>If only we didn't waste all of the antibiotics on non-human animals. This is the one thing that makes me want to turn vegetarian. we waste antibiotics on cattle. regardless those same cattle become reservoirs where new diseases that could kill us are incubated, because they are mammals like is. It would be very difficult for a plant disease to jump to us.

In the pedantic tradition around here:

To be fair, I remember an E Coli outbreak in spinach that laid a lot of people out. (I probably eat as much spinach as I do any meat :| and here I like to say I’m not much of a gambler)

——

Not to take away from your collective points at all. Rehashing the entire situation makes us look like a foolish species to have burned through such an advantageous technology so quickly. One can only hope we might come to yet more elegant solutions.

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#23

Post by slx26 »

placebo wrote: post #19
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #2

Let me try an optimistic thought experiment. Roughly around the end of the Napoleonic era, call it 1815, 9/10ths of humans lives in what we would call abject poverty. today it is reversed and only 1/10th does. (This is still a travesty, but it is objectively better) In that period we have seen incredible technological, political and economic improvements. But it's not clear if we will continue to see them "we might h…

I'd like to believe you are right and, without any ability to estimate where we are on what seems like an exponential curve, hope that things are evolving towards the positive at an ever increasing pace. Interesting you should mention monkey brains, because my monkey brain also recoils at this optimism when it understands that most brains are still monkey brains, and I don't trust monkeys that create an arsenal of we…

Yeah, that's what I call "creativity". I'd say creativity —without quotes— comes from plagiarising multiple sources at the same time, your past self included, and repeat until the result becomes cohesive.

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#24

Post by [deleted] »

snarfy wrote: post #12
btcindivist wrote: post #11

Are discoveries about black holes legit? Isn't it still the case that they have not been experimentally confirmed to exist, and all talk of discoveries is just conceptual?

We have recorded a video[1] of the black hole at the center of our galaxy. [1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7xl_zjz0o8

[deleted]

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#25

Post by iamgopal »

placebo wrote: post #21
jstanley wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying "we might have invented everything" for hundreds of years. I like the "invention wavefront" analogy, but I unfortunately can't remember where I learnt it. Imagine the high-dimensional space of all possible things that can be invented. In the "centre" of the space is a hypersphere containing everything that has been invented to date. Every new invention is invented by "poking outwards" in one s…

For all practical purposes, I agree with the analogy, but would like to point out that the box might not be infinite so there could be limits to invention. Take a chess game as an example. No one would say there weren't creative inventions regarding tactics and strategies to win, but the bottom line is that the number of possible chess games, no matter how staggeringly huge, is still finite. In the end, no matter how…

Also area of that thought ball increase by square. It means every new invention have tons of application in related and unrelated fields, which may help finds another invention. I think we should be able to invent all that is shown in those Hollywood blockbusters by couple of millenium if not more.

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#26

Post by Lambdanaut »

jstanley wrote: post #13
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #2

Let me try an optimistic thought experiment. Roughly around the end of the Napoleonic era, call it 1815, 9/10ths of humans lives in what we would call abject poverty. today it is reversed and only 1/10th does. (This is still a travesty, but it is objectively better) In that period we have seen incredible technological, political and economic improvements. But it's not clear if we will continue to see them "we might h…

People have been saying "we might have invented everything" for hundreds of years. I like the "invention wavefront" analogy, but I unfortunately can't remember where I learnt it. Imagine the high-dimensional space of all possible things that can be invented. In the "centre" of the space is a hypersphere containing everything that has been invented to date. Every new invention is invented by "poking outwards" in one s…

What if the box IS more-or-less bounded by the limiting cultural restrictions we place on the word "invention"?

In our cultural spectrum, we constrict our inventions to optimize for "use", but perhaps "use" is too narrow.

If you look at cultural events like Burning Man, you see all sorts of completely useless inventions. Fascinatingly useless inventions.

I actually hope that one day when we do enter post-scarcity that we can stop obsessing so much on whether or not something has the subjective quality of "use", and allow the boundaries of our hyperdimentional invention-space to grow exponentially.

I think "toy-space", or "art-space" if you will, is a logical expansion of "invention-space".

A delightful example of an invention outside of our current culturally accepted bounds of invention-space: https://youtu.be/apVR5Htz0K4

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#27

Post by tgroutars »

Donzo wrote: post #8
axelfontaine wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looks like a good two centuries to come. ... if it wasn't for - potential ecosystem collapses due to disappearing bee (pollination), insect (food) and coral populations - rising global instability due to climate refugees - the upcoming end of the antibiotics era - ...

> "Roughly around the end of the Napoleonic era, call it 1815, 9/10ths of humans lives in what we would call abject poverty. today it is reversed and only 1/10th does." There are now 80% more people (according to these figures) who now have enough food that they can worry about bees. That's a good thing if you ask me. Now about those bees...

I think you meant 800%. And that's not accounting for the growth in population

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#28

Post by Donzo »

tgroutars wrote: post #27
Donzo wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Roughly around the end of the Napoleonic era, call it 1815, 9/10ths of humans lives in what we would call abject poverty. today it is reversed and only 1/10th does." There are now 80% more people (according to these figures) who now have enough food that they can worry about bees. That's a good thing if you ask me. Now about those bees...

I think you meant 800%. And that's not accounting for the growth in population

Ha ha. Yeah. What a glaring error, yet you have arrived at an even more convincing figure!

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#29

Post by sergiosgc »

Lambdanaut wrote: post #26
jstanley wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have been saying "we might have invented everything" for hundreds of years. I like the "invention wavefront" analogy, but I unfortunately can't remember where I learnt it. Imagine the high-dimensional space of all possible things that can be invented. In the "centre" of the space is a hypersphere containing everything that has been invented to date. Every new invention is invented by "poking outwards" in one s…

What if the box IS more-or-less bounded by the limiting cultural restrictions we place on the word "invention"? In our cultural spectrum, we constrict our inventions to optimize for "use", but perhaps "use" is too narrow. If you look at cultural events like Burning Man, you see all sorts of completely useless inventions. Fascinatingly useless inventions. I actually hope that one day when we do enter post-scarcity tha…

You are describing evolution without an utility function. That won't work. We may be able to come up with an alternative utility function but, given past history, I'm afraid we won't and will be aimlessly exploring the solution space.

A good parallel can be draw to evolution in painting. Up until the invention of photography, painting evolved to be photo-realistic. It made amazing strides, with breathtaking results. Once photography made that evolution path obsolete, painting struggled to find a new utility function. Out of that struggle, we got amazing outcomes in conveying feelings, a new utility function. Work in the first half of the XX century, from the likes of Munch, Dali, Picasso, optimized this function up to its limits. From then on? Painting is somewhat lost in the solution space without an utility function.

Re: A dozen black holes may lie at the centre of our galaxy

#30

Post by btcindivist »

52-6F-62 wrote: post #22
lawlessone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If only we didn't waste all of the antibiotics on non-human animals. This is the one thing that makes me want to turn vegetarian. we waste antibiotics on cattle. regardless those same cattle become reservoirs where new diseases that could kill us are incubated, because they are mammals like is. It would be very difficult for a plant disease to jump to us.

In the pedantic tradition around here: To be fair, I remember an E Coli outbreak in spinach that laid a lot of people out. (I probably eat as much spinach as I do any meat :| and here I like to say I’m not much of a gambler) —— Not to take away from your collective points at all. Rehashing the entire situation makes us look like a foolish species to have burned through such an advantageous technology so quickly. One…

Well, spinach E Coli is there because we use cattle poop all over it. Nothing better than fertilising our vegetables with manure rich in antibiotics resistant E Coli.
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