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Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

vas3k.com

251–260 of 477 posts

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed; they've intentionally nerfed the normal keyboard models - if I was an Apple user that'd infuriate me no end. To call the range "Pro" is a lie. The biggest problem I see with it is Apple's hate of developers who touch type. Surely there's enough room on that unit to include both the function row and a touch bar? If so, it'd be pretty neat to have for presenting misc information. (It looks nice enough!) Lenovo…

I touch type, and I've never touch typed a function key.

If you aren't accessing the volume control or screen brightness keys without looking down then you're not really a touch typist :)

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed; they've intentionally nerfed the normal keyboard models - if I was an Apple user that'd infuriate me no end. To call the range "Pro" is a lie. The biggest problem I see with it is Apple's hate of developers who touch type. Surely there's enough room on that unit to include both the function row and a touch bar? If so, it'd be pretty neat to have for presenting misc information. (It looks nice enough!) Lenovo…

I touch type, and I've never touch typed a function key.

You got me on lack of precision - you don't need to be touch typing for physical FN keys to be useful.

I realise that whilst just about everything else I do on the keyboard is proper touch (based from F-J), I have to move my whole hands to use the FN keys. I will nevertheless hit F5, F9 etc for compiling / break points / step debugging without looking down at the keyboard.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#253
I went out of my way to buy a 2016 macbook without the touchbar as my new machine. I have a macbook pro with touchbar as my work machine and I hate it. The build quality is garbage, the keyboard is a huge step down, and the touchbar is incredibly fucking annoying. Why would they take away quick access to critical functionality like display brightness and volume?

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#254

> Things got even worse when Apple "reinvented" the Play/Pause button in High Sierra. Actually, this was introduced midway through macOS Sierra; https://developer.apple.com/documentation/mediaplayer is available in macOS 10.12.1+. > Buttons rock. It's always faster to tap, not slide. If you press Fn, the slider will go away and the "normal" function buttons will appear. > I want to have instant access to Finder, anyw…

> supposed grievances > knee-jerk reactions Anyone who doesn't like the Touch Bar is ipso facto deluded and/or irrational. Fantastic. My main means of input to my computers is touch-typing on a keyboard . I never look at it (I already have a peripheral for looking at: a screen!). Replacing an entire row of keys with a miniature screen would represent a fairly profound change to how I operate a machine I use for 5-8 h…

> Anyone who doesn't like the Touch Bar is ipso facto deluded and/or irrational. Fantastic.

You're putting words in my mouth. The root issue is just a lack of information; there's nothing wrong with the people themselves as you're trying to claim.

> My main means of input to my computers is touch-typing on a keyboard. I never look at it (I already have a peripheral for looking at: a screen!).

I agree, partially. When you're using the keyboard you're not looking at it, and for the most part that's also true for the Touch Bar. When you're doing something with the function keys or escape, you don't have to look down, since those are always in the right place. Even some with dialogs fit into this category. You do, however, look down when you're trying to perform some annoying operation that the Touch Bar surfaces easily.

> Furthermore the application I use for 50-70% of that time is IntelliJ Idea, with tweaked default keybindings. I probably hit F keys hundreds of times a day. I would need to either do some substantial keybinding remapping, or start using part of my keyboard as a mini-screen.

I'd make the argument that using the function keys as shortcuts is not the idiomatic way to use macOS, which relies heavily on the modifiers at the bottom of the keyboard, but I get that this is a weak argument since it requires you to change your behavior. Ideally Idea would just ship with nice shortcuts…

> I don't either like or dislike the Touch Bar.

My comment may have come off as a resounding plaudit for the Touch Bar; it is nothing but. I'm also not completely sold on it; I really think it needs to be improved so that it's more useful. However, I do think it's an interesting direction to go in, and as it currently stands, I'm slightly in favor of having it instead of function keys.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#255
post #218
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E-inks respond too slow for good touch feedback though so you'd want to have it be clicky or vibrate or something, which adds a moving part.

I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink. With regards to touch feedback, MacBooks come with a pretty hefty “haptic engine” already so it should be possible. [1] https://youtu.be/v-vP9D062aM

>I thought so too but the Pebble Time had snappy, colorful animations[1] that looked really good, and changed my perception completely on what is possible with e-ink.

Except they didn't use e-ink. Pebble used transreflective LCD's. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid-crystal_d...

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#256
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In short, it’s for the 90% of software users that float between general public and pro users. It works. Then they should have not called it a “MacBook pro” there is nothing “pro” about touch bar, it’s something useless that I have to pay extra for and I don’t need it at all.

The only time I touch my Touch Bar is to hit the Escape key. Because I use vi. Because I am a professional and theoretically the target audience of $3,000 premium quality laptops.

Having to "touch" a completely different surface to press escape sounds absolutely awful. Unless there's a way to swap escape for a real key that you don't need I would consider that machine defective.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed; they've intentionally nerfed the normal keyboard models - if I was an Apple user that'd infuriate me no end. To call the range "Pro" is a lie. The biggest problem I see with it is Apple's hate of developers who touch type. Surely there's enough room on that unit to include both the function row and a touch bar? If so, it'd be pretty neat to have for presenting misc information. (It looks nice enough!) Lenovo…

I touch type, and I've never touch typed a function key.

To be fair, Apple's F keys aren't even touch-typist friendly because there's no grouping.

I'm listening to music all day. Changing the volume and skipping tracks without looking is great to keep the flow going.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only time I touch my Touch Bar is to hit the Escape key. Because I use vi. Because I am a professional and theoretically the target audience of $3,000 premium quality laptops.

Funny that you need a $3000 laptop to run vi. Funny in a sad way.

The $3000 laptop runs the VMs that execute the software that's being built and configured using vi.

Re: Making the Touch Bar useful by abandoning Apple guidelines

#260
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every professional vi/vim user I know does not use the Escape key.

How do they escape input mode?

Well, due to a bug in a specific version of vi, holding the space-bar for a few seconds causes the laptop to overheat. I bought an external thermometer that connects via USB, and I have a daemon that monitors it to notice the overheating and send the ESC key to the application.
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