Live data from Hacker News

Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

nytimes.com

411–420 of 1001 posts

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#411
post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gravity of the second amendment isn't arms per se, it's the right to retain enough personal power to repel a dictator from taking over the government and just as importantly, making it so that even if a dictator succeeds, the country will be ungovernable for them.

So we should substitute 'strong cryptography' for 'arms' and see what happens.

It is funny you mention that actually - as a personal anecdote, I can say that many of my friends who happen to be advocates for free distro of crypto tech - or more commonly, cryptocurrencies - also tend to be fairly strong 2A advocates.

TL;DR; - IMO there is some significant crossover between crypto* people, and 2A people.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd vote for Belgium. More seriously: the US has nuclear weapons, rendering them safe from any direct confrontation with enemies challenging them technologically. They have a conventional military 10x the size needed for the sort of intervention that actually succeeded in the past (the Balkans, the first Gulf war). The rather unsuccessful wars (Afghanistan, Iraq) were lost not for technological reasons or any other d…

You might be interested in the book The Seventh Sense: Power, Fortune, and Survival in the Age of Networks . The author builds a thesis around the idea that one can understand the next wave of power as a network problem. He presents the loss of the Iraq war within this framework, as a failure on the part of a conventional military to adapt to the new forms of influence, communication and organization enabled by dense…

Yeah, maybe...

I think the problems are far easier to explain. Watching the documentary Restrepo, I was surprised to see how terrifyingly stupid American GIs are at anything but actual warfare.

The most telling scene was a meeting they had with the local "elders". This was in one of the most isolated valleys, even by Afghani standards. They were talking about a road to be build, and promising jobs for the locals.

Yet it was absolutely clear that these villagers did not even share the concept of a "job". They were goat herders mostly, and possibly some farmers. I'd bet that not one of them is a wage-earning employee or worker. They simply tend to their family's animals.

"Trade" is probably understood in these places, "jobs" is not. They tried to win over the local population with promises entirely based on an American POV.

In larger cities, such promises might have had a better chance to succeed. But I think it's instructive to look at the only people whose "hearts & minds^ the US actually managed to win: translators and other local employees tend to be the US' most ardent supporters. That's maybe due to the money they got, yes. And there's some selection bias at play, as well. But if I had to guess, I'd say simple, honest day-to-day social contact had the most influence.

I think the Us military should form a brigade entirely made up of hippies that can play instruments, like to talk to strangers, can play soccer and basketball, grow weed, and are good petting dogs and getting children to smile.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#413

So it says it will improve drone strike accuracy. Isn’t it a good thing? I mean there are currently a lot of civilian casualties from drone strikes, but that doesn’t stop anyone from using them anyway. Wouldn’t at least improving accuracy make thinks better in some regard?

replace "drone strike accuracy" with something like "zyklon b efficacy"

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#414

This may be an uncomfortable fact but people have surprisingly short memories: the military funded the majority of the early advances in systems, networking, and cryptography (and especially as a large part of the latter subject area, invested heavily in fundamental, theoretical research). Not saying that I disagree with the employees' opinion, just that DoD/Pentagon involvement in artificial intelligence research sh…

I strongly disagree with this comparison. In the prior, successful cases, the military funded research which was open, while in this case, the direction of information is reversed and the outcome is secret.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#415

AI is needed, the sooner we can make or create it to hold consciousness the better. We're constantly changing as a species and what we are 10,000 years from now, will far more different than we are to the ancient Egyptians. The universe will go on with out us and if intelligence is rare and spaced far apart AI is really the only chance that we have to be able to communicate or even find other intelligences.

you seem to be in the wrong thread

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#416

This may be an uncomfortable fact but people have surprisingly short memories: the military funded the majority of the early advances in systems, networking, and cryptography (and especially as a large part of the latter subject area, invested heavily in fundamental, theoretical research). Not saying that I disagree with the employees' opinion, just that DoD/Pentagon involvement in artificial intelligence research sh…

have you watched "Good Kill" or maybe even are familiar with the work of the Rosa-Luxemburg-Stiftung's research on US military drone program at Ramstein airbase? I guess not, because what you're proposing are further crimes against humanity. If the US wants AI/autonomous weapons then they should agree to have their troops held accountable at the The Hague International Court of Justice. - The Global Assassination Gri…

> If the US wants AI/autonomous weapons then they should agree to have their troops held accountable at the The Hague International Court of Justice.

Why would US agree to that if Russia or China couldn't care less about it? That'd be just handicapping the military.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be here. Your job would be the same. In fact, it would be hard to tell the difference. With all due respect, the 'ultimate sacrifices' might have been given, but many believe, including those that survived the horrors of war, that it was never to safeguard you, but rather a feast for those that prey on volatility.

That’s not a safe assumption. The US was awfully busy fighting the Japanese. Had they stayed out of Europe, Hitler would certainly have defeated Britain (leaving Africa unprotected) and likely had the resources spare to defeat the USSR too. From there Hitler could support the Japanese against the US and would have massive resources to do so. Hitler’s plan really was world domination. He had plans for a rocket-powered…

It's not at all certain that Hitler would have defeated Britain if the US had stayed out of Europe.

As far as I know, most historians agree that the US hastened the Allies victory over Germany but the Allies would have (eventually, probably) won anyways.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#418
post #395
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have the National Guard [1] --aka militias-- which provide ample check from the State level against a would-be dictatorship at the Federal level. For further self-education, one may want to read The Federalist Papers, in particular no 46 written by Madison (see [2] for a discussion of the issue). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_S... [2] http://tracinskiletter.com/2018/03/21/t…

The national guard is NOT the militia.

I agree that it is not the only militia.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#419
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have the National Guard [1] --aka militias-- which provide ample check from the State level against a would-be dictatorship at the Federal level. For further self-education, one may want to read The Federalist Papers, in particular no 46 written by Madison (see [2] for a discussion of the issue). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_the_United_S... [2] http://tracinskiletter.com/2018/03/21/t…

The constitutional concept of the militia is universal (well, universal for adult free males, at least, but arguably the limitations their relate to limitations applicable to the concept of full citizenship at the time, not special ones for the militia); the National Guard is a subset of or overlaps with the militia (and is, as it is structured, in some ways, in conflict with the conceptualized role of the militia in…

I agree, militia is a wider concept and there can be many such free-formed associations. I merely wanted to mention that the National Guard are also known as militias, and they have always had very powerful weapons at their disposal.

Re: Google Workers Urge C.E.O. To Pull Out of Pentagon A.I. Project

#420
post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Only in the USA is it normal to think that people should have the right to kill in self defense. If that's the case, I don't want to live anywhere else. If someone breaks into my home in the middle of the night, they pose a deadly threat to my family. In what country would you not feel the same way? > Even more, many think they should be able to defend themselves from the state. Not all states are benevolent, nor a…

Why must an intruder, who may be there just to steal something and not harm others, immediately have to pay for their actions with their life? Do gun owners truly believe that they can band together and stop the entirety of the United States military anymore? The same people who are large proponents of the 2nd Amendment also seem to encourage a massive defense budget which seems backwards to me.

Because you have no way of knowing, beforehand, an intruder's exact intentions.
Post reply on HN