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Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

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Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#21
post #4

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

> What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading? Because you're removing all specificity from it at the same time. If you show me that screenshot without the text in the tweet, I'd have no idea what action it actually refers to. It could mean you're buying or selling an option. Or it could mean you're buying or selling a stock (potentially short selling). It could even mean you're buying stock on margin. I…

So much BS in your post and most of everyone ("elitist") here. If someone came here say this kind of thing about programming they would be voted to hell.

ie. If you do not know how pointers work you have no busines programming because you'll undoubtedly screw your app.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#22
post #4

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

It's wrong because we don't want to simplify concepts to a level beneath the minimum information needed for understanding them. Call and Put specifically refer to what happens on maturity or exercise of the contract. You either call the stock from the counterparty, or you put it to the counterparty.

The only reason we don't refer to them as "buy" and "sell" options is because you can both buy and sell either of them. Nobody wants to shout into a phone "buy 10,000 AAPL Jan19 100 sells," and hope that the broker on the floor gets it right.

In actual fact, a call doesn't just represent "I think it will go up." Nor does the holder of a call always make money when the stock appreciates in value.

They are volatility products, and they decay with time. If you buy a put before a catalyst with a 9% implied move, and the stock drops 2%, you probably just lost money on event theta as the vol resets. How do you explain that a down option can lose money on a down move?

Giving a false sense of simplicity probably will tempt more folks into making losing trades on options.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#24
post #13

As if we needed another reminder that Wall Street is a casino underwritten by the taxpayers. A welfare program run by the Fed for the rich. A market for fools, not a necessary institution to capitalize business. I guess it's better than trading slaves.

Surely it can be both a casino for the ignorant and a necessary institution for the educated and intelligent.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#25
post #4

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

It's wrong because we don't want to simplify concepts to a level beneath the minimum information needed for understanding them. Call and Put specifically refer to what happens on maturity or exercise of the contract. You either call the stock from the counterparty, or you put it to the counterparty. The only reason we don't refer to them as "buy" and "sell" options is because you can both buy and sell either of them.…

How many people who trade options actually call up the shares at the end or vice versa? I'd imagine very few and even fewer on Robinhood's platform. I think a level of abstraction that clarifies things is fine.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#26
post #4

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

The trouble is that Robinhood has a very low barrier of entry and now you have laymen who, if they don't understand basic finance terms, likely do not understand the fundamentals of trading options.

The terms are out dated. I disagree with "up" and "down" because that is even more wrong (I'm up for buying that stock like I'm up for a game of chess, and I'm down to sell these like I'm down to go to the movies? Is that what they mean? Way too colloquial for my liking).

Just be more descriptive instead of trying to re-purpose other words. A "call" should be "Buy on Date", abbreviated to BOD, and a put should be "Sell on Date", or SOD. You don't even need to google what the means, you can immediately understand it when you read it.

The medical field is going through a similar renaming. Doctors in the early stages of modern medicine would discover something and name it after themselves. Oppenheimer Test? Wtf is that you egotistical douche, just call it the tibia tickle test.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#27
post #4

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

Options are relatively complex instruments with an enormous amount of risk involved. If you can’t understsnd the difference between “call” and “put” will you understand strike price and expiration date and that you will literally lose 100% of your money if an option ends up out of the money on the expiration date? I doubt it.

For example, Robinhood calls Facebook July puts that are 10% out of the money “medium risk.” In other words if Facebook doesn’t go up 10% by July you lose all your money.

Options are very high risk, high reward plays. Making that more accessible is... risky.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#28
post #4

What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading?

It's wrong because we don't want to simplify concepts to a level beneath the minimum information needed for understanding them. Call and Put specifically refer to what happens on maturity or exercise of the contract. You either call the stock from the counterparty, or you put it to the counterparty. The only reason we don't refer to them as "buy" and "sell" options is because you can both buy and sell either of them.…

Isn't tempting people into making losing trades the point, though? Robin Hood presumably has some way of profiting from trades which does not include directly charging people, such as commissions. So the more confused novices are, the more valuable they are as resources whose money can be systematically extracted by counterparties.

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the javascript in the programming field? Go figure.

If you want to write programs without really having a clue, that's fine and educational for most purposes, just not if you're hacking your personal vehicle, pacemaker, or nuclear reactor.

If someone want to burn all their personal money, so what?

So basically: At least they will not be programming insecure things, even websites that leak millions of records every week by "thinking they know programming".

Too much double standard: "Lets make programming accessible so everyone can become code monkeys without clue, but do not touch my precious stock trading terms. We do not want anyone trying to get rich without a clue."

Re: Robinhood replaced “call” and “put” with “up” and “down”

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's wrong with removing the jargon from stock trading? Because you're removing all specificity from it at the same time. If you show me that screenshot without the text in the tweet, I'd have no idea what action it actually refers to. It could mean you're buying or selling an option. Or it could mean you're buying or selling a stock (potentially short selling). It could even mean you're buying stock on margin. I…

So much BS in your post and most of everyone ("elitist") here. If someone came here say this kind of thing about programming they would be voted to hell. ie. If you do not know how pointers work you have no busines programming because you'll undoubtedly screw your app.

I don't think your analogy holds water, if only from the fact that "pass by reference vs value" is rooted in pointer knowledge, and is rather key to "not screwing up your app." (And as sister posts pointed out, messing up an app usually does not put ones finances on the line)

I also disagree with the core thrust of your post, but that's subjective so I'm listing this second. As someone who went from "financially clueless" to trading options over the last few years, I got to see my own mistakes firsthand, which were at least initially rooted in not understanding the implications of various vehicles and the patterns by which to use them, and that was even after quite a bit of time practicing in simulators.

No, I absolutely agree with the parent that there's a risk to not only trying to spoon-feed gambling (which is honestly how I see options, take it or leave it) under the guise of investing to uninformed consumers, but in splitting the jargon so a new entrant can't even easily bootstrap their knowledge by looking up the terms.

(I find it additionally funny to be arguing this, as I'm normally a staunch opponent to the Accredited Investor laws, but there's definitely a continuum between "keep poor people from using these vehicles" and "everyone and their grandmother can now shoot themselves in the foot without the most base validation that they know what they're getting into or have the tools to do so with eyes open")

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