Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting • Hacker News Board

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#61

Post by dabeeeenster » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:53 PM UTC

lolsal wrote: post #41

dabeeeenster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The media frenzy makes this look like some kind of out-of-control epidemic, but that's just not the case." That's exactly the case. Just because numbers are going down doesn't make it any less of an epidemic. "people are approaching the topic emotionally rather than rationally and proposing extreme reactions" Suggesting people don't own assault rifles is not an "extreme reaction".

> That's exactly the case. Just because numbers are going down doesn't make it any less of an epidemic. 'Epidemic' is usually used to refer to the rate of spread of something. This sort of hyperbole is exactly why it's hard to have honest or productive discussions about this topic. > Suggesting people don't own assault rifles is not an "extreme reaction". I would assert that it depends on whether or not you feel alte…

I'm British, so I'm not really concerned by it. The US is collectively losing its mind, on many levels.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#62

Post by IgorPartola » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:53 PM UTC

m52go wrote: post #35

johnny313 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Folks, the number of shooting crimes (including school shootings) in the United States is going down. This is not supported by other analyses that look at the issue. FiveThirtyEight looked at several measures of school shootings / mass shootings and came to the opposite conclusion. [0] [0] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-matter-how-you-measu...

Then we need to figure out which numbers are correct. That shouldn't be rocket science. But either way, hysteria still isn't the way forward...it never is. I won't attempt to debate any of the points made in your article, as I'm not authority on the subject myself, but thanks for linking it. However, you might find this article written by a former member of the FiveThirtyEight team interesting: https://www.washington…

Is there some minimal number of school shootings that's acceptable? My position is that we clearly have shown that this country cannot be trusted with personal possession of firearms, so let's all calmly proceed towards no longer having them around.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#63

Post by lainga » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:53 PM UTC

johnny313 wrote: post #28

m52go wrote: post #13

Folks, the number of shooting crimes (including school shootings) in the United States is going down. I know times like this are the worst times to mention this fact, but it's true [0]. The media frenzy makes this look like some kind of out-of-control epidemic, but that's just not the case. This does not mean we should do nothing about them...any shooting is an event that should not happen. But it's important to real…

> Folks, the number of shooting crimes (including school shootings) in the United States is going down. This is not supported by other analyses that look at the issue. FiveThirtyEight looked at several measures of school shootings / mass shootings and came to the opposite conclusion. [0] [0] https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/no-matter-how-you-measu...

Why are you comparing trends in school/mass shootings to trends in all shooting crimes?

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#64

Post by malvosenior » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:54 PM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #43

matte_black wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, the term assault rifle probably isn’t what you think you’re referring to. Second, the reason effective conversations can’t be had on gun control is because of how emotional and out of touch the anti-gun crowd gets. A lot of this is due to activists and the media riling people up. Gun owners are all about safety and personal responsibility, and many do support sensible gun control laws. The problem is, as s…

Coming from a country where people don't have guns, I don't really see the problem with no guns. They're an awful public health risk. They have basically no advantages. Even for their use in suicide alone, they would be just as reasonable to ban as any commodity you could name - for instance, heroin, or dynamite, or crystal meth.

They absolutely have the advantage of putting a check on government power. The US is a very heterogeneous country (probably much more so than the country you’re referencing). Not all groups have a great relationship with the government and very sensibly feel that giving the government a monopoly on firearms is not in their best interest.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#65

Post by xienze » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:54 PM UTC

tomlock wrote: post #34

m52go wrote: post #13

Folks, the number of shooting crimes (including school shootings) in the United States is going down. I know times like this are the worst times to mention this fact, but it's true [0]. The media frenzy makes this look like some kind of out-of-control epidemic, but that's just not the case. This does not mean we should do nothing about them...any shooting is an event that should not happen. But it's important to real…

America is 12th in the world in per-capita gun deaths by country. Should we be satisfied with 12th?

Source please. I’m almost certain that includes suicides.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#66

Post by gooseus » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:55 PM UTC

lolc wrote: post #30

Given that suicidal shooters often crave attention, this is the wrong signal to send.

Thank you, I think the best policy for approaching these rampage suicide murderers is to minimize their exposure in popular culture and forbid the use of their name in the media.

This has the added benefit of not stigmatizing their family, who likely have little to do with the event.

As an aside, I also think any killers of this kind should have their wishes for burial null and void with their brains and bodies given immediately to scientific research.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#67

Post by rocqua » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:55 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #32

dabeeeenster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The media frenzy makes this look like some kind of out-of-control epidemic, but that's just not the case." That's exactly the case. Just because numbers are going down doesn't make it any less of an epidemic. "people are approaching the topic emotionally rather than rationally and proposing extreme reactions" Suggesting people don't own assault rifles is not an "extreme reaction".

First off, the term assault rifle probably isn’t what you think you’re referring to. Second, the reason effective conversations can’t be had on gun control is because of how emotional and out of touch the anti-gun crowd gets. A lot of this is due to activists and the media riling people up. Gun owners are all about safety and personal responsibility, and many do support sensible gun control laws. The problem is, as s…

I want to point out an imbalance in your reasoning. Essentially, you are judging both sides by a different standard.

> how emotional and out of touch the anti-gun crowd gets > someone stands up and says “Oh hey here’s an idea why don’t we just ban all guns lol!!”

Here, you are essentially judging gun-opponents by their worst examples. That is, you are judging them by their members that are loud and unreasonable.

> Gun owners are all about safety and personal responsibility, and many do support sensible gun control laws.

Here, you are judging gun-owners and presumably those who are against all firearms being illegal by something better than their worst examples. When you say "Gun owners are all about safety and personal responsibility" you are essentially judging this group by their ideals, not their practice. Moreover, it seems unlikely that literally all gun owners actually hold these ideals. Those that don't are a fringe crowd, but you judged the 'anti-gun' people by that same fringe.

Now, I am not accusing you, this is rather natural. You yourself are a gun-owner that is responsible and cares about safety, and most if not all gun-owners you know are the same. So, it makes sense to assume that this holds for all gun-owners. At the same time, the less outrageous gun-opponents are much less noticeable to you. Mostly because outrageous things get propagated.

Note that the opposite happens among gun-opponents. They share outrageously irresponsible gun-owners, and presume gun-opponents are reasonable like themselves. To make actual progress on gun laws, we need to start engaging the reasonable part of the opposing side.

This still involves tough choices, because in the end one side wants to restrict gun ownership a lot more than the other side. Gun-owners are afraid to give ground because it might be a slippery slope, and gun-opponents are frustrated that even the most reasonable proposals are rejected.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#68

Post by godelski » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:58 PM UTC

m52go wrote: post #13

Folks, the number of shooting crimes (including school shootings) in the United States is going down. I know times like this are the worst times to mention this fact, but it's true [0]. The media frenzy makes this look like some kind of out-of-control epidemic, but that's just not the case. This does not mean we should do nothing about them...any shooting is an event that should not happen. But it's important to real…

I just wish we would talk about things that are causing the shootings in the first place and not boil it down to overly simplified explanations of "can't stop crazy" vs "why do we even need guns?" All that does is create an endless loop of stupidity and people dying. I mean the gun death problem is extremely multifaceted and there's a huge difference in how school shootings, active shooters, gangs, suicides, etc happen and how you mitigate them.

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#69

Post by Veelox » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 10:59 PM UTC

CodeMage wrote: post #46

matte_black wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, the term assault rifle probably isn’t what you think you’re referring to. Second, the reason effective conversations can’t be had on gun control is because of how emotional and out of touch the anti-gun crowd gets. A lot of this is due to activists and the media riling people up. Gun owners are all about safety and personal responsibility, and many do support sensible gun control laws. The problem is, as s…

> First off, the term assault rifle probably isn’t what you think you’re referring to. It probably doesn't mean what I think, either, yet we're all still perfectly capable of understanding GP's point. > Second, the reason effective conversations can’t be had on gun control is because of how emotional and out of touch the anti-gun crowd gets. A lot of this is due to activists and the media riling people up. I don't th…

> if so many gun owners really do support sensible gun control laws

Would you be willing to outline what you count as sensible gun control laws and what you hope to accomplish with these gun laws?

Re: Google maps shows location of San Bruno shooting

#70

Post by uhhyeahdude » Tue, Apr 03, 2018, 11:01 PM UTC

ericmcer wrote: post #24

m52go wrote: post #13

Folks, the number of shooting crimes (including school shootings) in the United States is going down. I know times like this are the worst times to mention this fact, but it's true [0]. The media frenzy makes this look like some kind of out-of-control epidemic, but that's just not the case. This does not mean we should do nothing about them...any shooting is an event that should not happen. But it's important to real…

Do you think this is a coordinated, planned effort by the media, or an organic event? Did they decide they wanted to convince the public that shootings are suddenly a much bigger issue, or did shootings start to be great selling news so now they seek them out aggressively. It kind of reminds me of the late 90's and early 2000's when all of a sudden kids getting abducted became huge news. That forever changed the way…

Prior to that there was the Satanic Panic of the eighties, which did even more to the shifting relationships between children and adults. The panic was a seemingly organic media ratings fest, and reading up on it (I was born later than the audience) has been fascinating.

I cannot speak to your other proposals, as I would be adding additional speculation to something borne of tragedy that cannot be denied, regardless of specifics.