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Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

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Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#201

Post by 131012 »

nerdymanchild wrote: post #146
131012 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's incredible to me that so many Americans consider free market as an ideal. They substitute compassion and cooperation with a superficial version of competition and cruelty.

The idea that the free market is cruel is skewed. It's clear you don't value liberty or personal responsibility with that sort of perspective. Nothing in this world is owed or guaranteed to you, and forcing people to cooperate with you is immoral but you would disagree.

I will not escalate this discussion as I feel it diverges from HN ethics of deliberation. I hope you have a great day!

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#203

Post by laylao »

arkh wrote: post #87
PunchTornado wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't all gender pay studies like this? When they say women earn 80% less than men they don't take into account qualifications or jobs.

They don't. They usually take the average of all working men and average of all working women. Some go with not just working but "of working age".

Do they usually use average instead of median? That terribly skews the numbers with the top 0.2% being weighted much more highly than the bottom 99.8%.

The gender distribution for the top 0.2% doesn't matter since most men and women will never reach that income.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#204

Post by jtolmar »

Malarkey73 wrote: post #7

"He attributes the earnings reversal overwhelmingly to one factor: education. For every two guys who graduate from college or get a higher degree, three women do." It's interesting itself that more women graduate than men. But equal pay means equal pay for people with similar qualifications doing similar jobs. This comparison means nothing to me.

Both definitions are useful. Different pay for the same work is obviously unjust at the surface because it affects individuals. But a different mixture of jobs that leads to unequal pay, while it doesn't involve anything so easy as pointing at an individual to blame, still hints at a structural problem in our society.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#205

Post by ada1981 »

J-dawg wrote: post #143
carlmr wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way around this is to have education. Especially on topics like statistics literacy (not really just statistics, but how to read them), journalism, lobbyism and propaganda. These things should be taught in high school. Taking apart arguments in old propaganda (where there is less political motive) and encouraging people to look out for new propaganda. Of course it doesn't seem the government would be interes…

> The best way around this is to have education I agree completely, but would education really fix the 20% gender pay gap myth? I find it very difficult to believe that most of the people who continually reinforce this myth actually believe it to be true. They simply can't all be that ill-educated and/or stupid. And yet the same articles appear in the media every single year. It's become one of those taboo subjects w…

Trump should just cite the studies that show it's not true, but present it as a NEW DEVELOPMENT and thus #MAGA and take credit for it.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#206

Post by sp332 »

nukeop wrote: post #26
kristianc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, that is already in progress - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/06/gender-pay-g...

This is still an incorrect approach looking at incorrect metrics. According to the government document: >The gender pay gap is the difference between the average earnings of men and women, expressed relative to men’s earnings. For example, ‘women earn 15% less than men per hour’. But this is not what should be measured. If there's a mining company that employs 90% men working down in the mine and 10% women doing acco…

Of course it does tell us that (or at least give us an indication). We see that they don't believe that men and women deserve equal pay for their work.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#207

Post by rectang »

magduf wrote: post #178
rectang wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you mean giving the same amount of leave to both fathers and mothers, isn't that already the norm? The Clinton-era FMLA grants 12 weeks unpaid maternity leave. 25 states expand on that, and 25 do not. > Many fathers probably avoid taking so much leave precisely because it does harm their career. Some will take it. If utilization rates are not equal, that's not a reason to withhold the opportunity. > I don't see…

>Some will take it. If utilization rates are not equal, that's not a reason to withhold the opportunity. I never said it was. However, if it's unpaid leave, it's pretty obvious why many would refuse to take it, or not take as much as is available: they can't afford the lack of pay. How are parents supposed to pay their bills if they're both taking a 12-week unpaid vacation? Health insurance doesn't pay your rent. So…

> So it seems pretty obvious that for many couples, the woman (who generally earns less, and also usually breastfeeds) will take all/more leave and stay home, while the man will get back to work so their finances don't take too much of a hit.

Why should that be our expectation? The career penalty is a tax on mothers and a subsidy for fathers. That such inequity is normalized is why "adjusting" the gender gap does not solve it.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#208

Post by ada1981 »

sudoke wrote: post #145
logfromblammo wrote: post #120

Real life stubbornly resists all attempts to make it more fair . An 8% difference in either direction is acceptable to me. It's good enough to tolerate until it's worth revisiting for further improvements. So now that we have the gender pay gap (almost) sorted out, perhaps we should tackle a problem more likely to cause societal problems: the increasing measures of wealth inequality.

Why is wealth inequality a problem? People should be free to pursue maximum compensation for their skills and abilities, not be limited because they are better at somethings than other people.

Don't forget about dumb luck, one of the greatest predictors of wealth.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#209

Post by sudoke »

boffinism wrote: post #164
sudoke wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is wealth inequality a problem? People should be free to pursue maximum compensation for their skills and abilities, not be limited because they are better at somethings than other people.

When people talk about wealth inequality as a bad thing they're normally talking about self-perpetuating wealth inequality, or wealth inequality that is caused by things that are seen as inherently unfair, like the family you are born into. A lot of people who have comparative wealth and have worked hard for it feel they have earned their wealth, disregarding the fact that a lot of other people work equally hard and…

People who think wealth inequality is a problem are being short sighted.

>wealth inequality that is caused by things that are seen as inherently unfair, like the family you are born into.

I, like my father before me, am making sacrifices to benefit my future generations. It's not unfair, it's called being responsible and thinking about the future.

edit: changed delusional to short sighted.

Re: Study shows salaries of young women 8% higher than men in peer group (2010)

#210

Post by x220 »

Malarkey73 wrote: post #7

"He attributes the earnings reversal overwhelmingly to one factor: education. For every two guys who graduate from college or get a higher degree, three women do." It's interesting itself that more women graduate than men. But equal pay means equal pay for people with similar qualifications doing similar jobs. This comparison means nothing to me.

>But equal pay means equal pay for people with similar qualifications doing similar jobs.

This is a wonderful example of a double standard: when a study finds that men earn more than women, people say it doesn't matter that they aren't working in the same jobs because (as they say) discrimination keeps women from getting those jobs, but when women earn more then men, it's fine and dandy because they aren't working in the same jobs or experience levels, so no discrimination exists.

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