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Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#81

Post by mkesper »

ams6110 wrote: post #75
jstanley wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal tender doesn't mean "not just worthless paper". Legal tender is "Legally valid currency that may be offered in payment of a debt and that a creditor must accept." ( https://www.wordnik.com/words/legal%20tender )

There's not a debtor/creditor relationship in a private retail transaction, at least in the USA. It is an exchange of value, not an extension of credit. A retail store is perfectly permitted to have a "no cash accepted" policy. Even the public transit here generally has a "no cash" policy for fares.

Not in Germany, for example. We still have laws that cash has to be accepted for (almost) any trade.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#82

Post by randomsearch »

ciocan42 wrote: post #20

From what I've seen here in London (UK), mostly tourists use cash. Everybody else uses contactless payments. You can pay with contactless cards or apple/android pay on the public transport or on your corner grocery store. And with the new fin-tech banks like Monzo, Starling or Revolut the banking apps are light years ahead of traditional banks.

Anyone in the UK who is not already using Monzo should definitely check it out.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#83

Post by draw_down »

nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

Pick your dystopia!

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#84

Post by mkesper »

optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

You're legally obliged to accept cash in Germany so offering any other means of paying must be well worth it (fees, readers etc.).

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#85

Post by bo1024 »

aianus wrote: post #61
vertex-four wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, back to talking about real people, the less you feel like you have a sufficient buffer to last until your next paycheck, the more stressed you are. If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it.

> If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it. If the average person didn't spend too much money on things they don't need, we'd have very high unemployment. The people with jobs might feel better and less stressed but a huge number of people would be extremely stressed and despondent.

I see your point, but I don't think we should be aiming at a solution of continuing to promote overconsumption. I think we should aim for a world where people are less manipulated into overconsumption, but everyone still has the means for a comfortable and happy life.

It may sound obvious when I put it that way, but it seems to me that many times the political or economic proposals I hear fundamentally disagree with this goal.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#86

Post by notahacker »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #71
optimusrex wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the new addition of Pay Wave where you can simply tap a card on a sensor, I do not see how paying with cash and then waiting for the teller to sort of the bills and provide the right change can be faster. I understand I need to become more accustomed to the culture that I immigrate too, but that does not mean that there are not more efficient solutions compared to "the way its always been". As for the card reade…

> With the new addition of Pay Wave where you can simply tap a card on a sensor, I do not see how paying with cash and then waiting for the teller to sort of the bills and provide the right change can be faster. Have you seen the automated checkouts a lot of stores are installing? There is no cashier. You scan your items and insert bills in the slot. The change is calculated by a computer and returned immediately.

This still takes more time than touching a wallet to a sensor

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#87

Post by draw_down »

ciocan42 wrote: post #20

From what I've seen here in London (UK), mostly tourists use cash. Everybody else uses contactless payments. You can pay with contactless cards or apple/android pay on the public transport or on your corner grocery store. And with the new fin-tech banks like Monzo, Starling or Revolut the banking apps are light years ahead of traditional banks.

Using Apple Pay is so nice, it's definitely the fastest way to pay for anything, including cash. But it's important for cash to still be available and normal to use.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#88

Post by dragonwriter »

nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

I imagine the rants when issuing currency was restricted to a state monopoly were pretty similar, and pretty similarly misguided.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#89

Post by brownbat »

staplers wrote: post #77
mfringel wrote: post #31

Cashless transactions require a third party to give permission for the transaction, typically in real-time. It's completely normal to be "basically okay" with that... I use cards/apps to pay on a regular basis. However, it's a long haul between "okay with cashless transactions being a popular payment method", and "eliminating cash."

Cashless transactions require a third party Cryptocurrency.. (miners are decentralized and don't require you to trust them)

The network is still the third party.

With cash, or bottle caps, or any physical token, all you need are two people that agree it has value. Possession is the ledger.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#90

Post by ddingus »

nv-vn wrote: post #76

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle t…

Maybe it's more about risk management, in particular, mixing investment banking in where the public ends up on the hook.
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