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Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

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Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#71

Post by AnthonyMouse »

optimusrex wrote: post #5
jmnicolas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you're not used to pay with cash but for people that are used to it, it's not slower than using plastic. And sometimes it's even faster, when the card or the card reader don't work, the customer is old etc.

With the new addition of Pay Wave where you can simply tap a card on a sensor, I do not see how paying with cash and then waiting for the teller to sort of the bills and provide the right change can be faster. I understand I need to become more accustomed to the culture that I immigrate too, but that does not mean that there are not more efficient solutions compared to "the way its always been". As for the card reade…

> With the new addition of Pay Wave where you can simply tap a card on a sensor, I do not see how paying with cash and then waiting for the teller to sort of the bills and provide the right change can be faster.

Have you seen the automated checkouts a lot of stores are installing? There is no cashier. You scan your items and insert bills in the slot. The change is calculated by a computer and returned immediately.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#72

Post by StavrosK »

aianus wrote: post #65
StavrosK wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to input the amount into the POS so it can start the transaction as well. Sellers here (Greece) are so used to this (they do it thousands of times a day) that it takes them almost no time to give change back. It helps that change is always segregated into proper trays/slots. Even with contactless, I always feel kind of bad to be paying by card at the super market because I'm slowing the queue down. If the am…

It's over $100 or $150 here in Canada here before you have to use the PIN. Basically never have to use the PIN in day-to-day purchases. But yes, when the PIN comes into play it's slower than cash.

Over here it's adjustable, but the default is 20 or 25 euros. Makes sense when the average salary is 500 euros.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#73

Post by lorenzhs »

optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

There's a very detailed Bundesbank report on popularity of means of payment in Germany that was recently updated: https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/EN/Topics/2018/2018_02_1... -- the full report (in German only, sorry) is at https://www.bundesbank.de/Redaktion/DE/Downloads/Veroeffentl...

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#74

Post by marktangotango »

optimusrex wrote: post #2

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

It’s the transaction fees, Germans are “thrifty”.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#75

Post by ams6110 »

jstanley wrote: post #66
toyg wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think something was lost in translation there... cash is legal tender everywhere; that just means it's not worthless paper. Besides, this seems a bit of an "originalist" view of commercial transactions. I bet if I tried to pull that off, the police would take a dim view. But who knows, the Netherlands are a strange place.

Legal tender doesn't mean "not just worthless paper". Legal tender is "Legally valid currency that may be offered in payment of a debt and that a creditor must accept." ( https://www.wordnik.com/words/legal%20tender )

There's not a debtor/creditor relationship in a private retail transaction, at least in the USA. It is an exchange of value, not an extension of credit.

A retail store is perfectly permitted to have a "no cash accepted" policy. Even the public transit here generally has a "no cash" policy for fares.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#76

Post by nv-vn »

Wow. No comments on how crazy this viewpoint is? They're not just talking about eliminating cash, they want to nationalize all private banking. They're arguing that a monopoly of the state is better than a "monopoly" of four different companies, that private firms cannot be trusted to manage financial transactions despite the massive history proving they can, and that the state is somehow going to be able to handle these types of transactions despite all the evidence against this claim. For example, if only the state was allowed to process financial transactions, we never would have gotten credit/debit cards. If they had nationalized after this development, we would not have NFC payments or chips in cards. The state is anti-innovation (think about how slowly government infrastructure has developed) and anti-consumer (imagine the DMV in charge of your money). This whole notion of "the state knows everything" and "only the state cares about you" seems completely dystopian.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#77

Post by staplers »

mfringel wrote: post #31

Cashless transactions require a third party to give permission for the transaction, typically in real-time. It's completely normal to be "basically okay" with that... I use cards/apps to pay on a regular basis. However, it's a long haul between "okay with cashless transactions being a popular payment method", and "eliminating cash."

  Cashless transactions require a third party
Cryptocurrency.. (miners are decentralized and don't require you to trust them)

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#78

Post by yxhuvud »

> But an opinion poll this month revealed unease among Swedes, with almost seven out of 10 saying they wanted to keep the option to use cash, while just 25% wanted a completely cashless society

Sigh. I guess that is one way to show that result. Unless they can claim that the numbers have been higher for cashless, then I doubt any claim can be made that people are turning against it.

That isn't to say that cashlessness doesn't have any issues, but I find it amazing that as many as a quarter of us Swedes actually want to strive towards a fully cashless society.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#80

Post by padobson »

jacobush wrote: post #55
SllX wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pointlessly spending more money than necessary probably isn't good for your health as an individual though, and arguably the push to get more people to spend more money more often isn't good for a society. It might be good for their economy, but economy ≠ society. If you really just want to inflate the amount of money being spent, there's always room for more rent-seekers and debt collectors.

Also, it may be "good for the economy" if "good" is "more money being spent". But that's too valueless for my taste. A stupid utility function. If you by "economy" mean as a metric for other utility in the society, then, spending money on stupid stuff, is just akin to digging holes and then filling them again. Only that, the holes are very elaborate. (Like perfumes or stupid shit like a metric crap ton of TVs nobody…

spending money on stupid stuff

The problem here, as with any economic ideas, is properly defining "stupid stuff". Value has to be defined on an individual basis. If someone gets more entertainment from digging holes and filling them with dirt than using their phone, then hole digging doesn't seem like such pointless endeavor. The hole digger will probably end up in better health than the phone user, too, so it's not like there endeavor is altogether pointless.

Taking options away (like cash) is a bad idea if you're optimizing society around individual autonomy. We should want as many options as possible.

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