Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#611

Post by justinclift » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:28 PM UTC

ratsimihah wrote: post #520

sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t? I use both a Mac and an Arch Linux running i3/awesomewm, and to me macOS is like any Linux distro with a user-friendly desktop environment. I guess it doesn’t have an « official » package manager, but homebrew has most packages anyway?

> What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t?

Stable, long term, OS support. I'm running CentOS 7 x64 now, as I got completely sick and tired of Apple's "new OS release every year" bullshit.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#612

Post by freehunter » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

Here's the problem with saying "this is better for computer scientists": It's the same argument every time someone says "the Macbook Pro is not a professional device". Not every computer scientist has the same needs. There are a lot of CS folks who will never need to recompile a kernel or even get into the OS internals. For those people, having to do that is a major downside to any computer. So the obvious choice is a computer where that's never necessary.

Linux is a great OS. I spend all day SSH'd into it. From a Mac. Because my workstation needs to work, and it's not going to work if I'm copying and pasting kernel code from Stack Overflow to get my trackpad to scroll the correct direction. I'm not a C programmer, so keep me as far from the kernel as you can.

The best environment for a computer scientist is the one that lets them get their work done in the most comfortable fashion. And for most of us, that's Linux on the server and something else on our workstations.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#613

Post by radarsat1 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:31 PM UTC

therealmarv wrote: post #600

blacklight wrote: post #560

I personally hate close fences with no rooms for customization, and many computer scientists are on the same wavelength. Windows is an awful choice for software development, a job that usually requires a lot of interaction with Unix servers. Microsoft's recent crush for Linux and open source can't fix many years of closed standards, closed protocols, and Embrace-Extend-Exterminate evil culture. And MacOS, even though…

I really dislike the argument for recompiling a whole Kernel to getting something to run is a good thing... I would even say it's very good that Windows and Mac don't need a whole Kernel recompilation for devices... just because Linux has this design for their hardware stack does not make it a good choice. Ever wanted to get custom hardware drivers working in Linux... it's insane and complicated you need to recompile…

> I really dislike the argument for recompiling a whole Kernel to getting something to run is a good thing...

I haven't had to do that in years. On the other hand, knowing that I could gives me peace of mind.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#614

Post by gurkendoktor » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

danielrhodes wrote: post #203

jimrandomh wrote: post #30

Based on this article, it doesn't sound like Bloomberg has enough information to distinguish between Apple being committed to a transition, or Apple developing chips to improve their negotiating position with Intel. It's also very unlikely to happen on such a fast timetable; given the IP situation, it's unlikely Apple could make an x86_64 chip, and any move away from x86_64 is going to require significant work by thi…

> third parties outside Apple who haven't even heard of the possibility of this happening until today This announcement is hardly a surprise. The writing has been on the wall for at least the last 5 years since LLVM replaced GCC in XCode. It became even more obvious when Apple started compiling to "Bitcode" so that they could deliver optimized binaries to devices. What that replacement meant is that it would ease App…

> The writing has been on the wall for at least the last 5 years since LLVM replaced GCC in XCode. It became even more obvious when Apple started compiling to "Bitcode" so that they could deliver optimized binaries to devices.

These weren't clear signs of an upcoming ARM switch:

• Apple has been purging software that's under the GPL for quite a while now, and GCC was probably high on the list since Apple (NeXT) had been bitten by its license before[1].

• The Intel switch in 2006 was extremely smooth even using GCC.

• Bitcode is not enabled on macOS, and even if it were, it's not abstract enough to recompile an x86 app for ARM[2].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9158017 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9728162

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#615

Post by matwood » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:34 PM UTC

wbl wrote: post #403

djrogers wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Close, but Apple already produces it's own WiFi/BT chipsets (the S1/S2 etc SOCs in Apple watches for example, and the W1 chipset in AirPods and new Beats headphones), and is rumored to be working on an LTE/GSM chipset. I think Apple is intensely interested in controlling the entire stack.

Why? A lot of these parts are commodetized. Are they really getting that much better battery life from their own stuff?

With the W1, battery life and bluetooth that actually works as it should have from the start.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#616

Post by tibyat » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:36 PM UTC

bb88 wrote: post #562

ionforce wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What parts of your workflow do you think are uniquely enhanced by not being on Mac?

For me, 1. Getting packages with apt on ubuntu without installing homebrew. It's vastly simpler and natively supported by ubuntu. I can also update my entire system with sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade. 2. Native docker support. 3. On mac, I always ask the question whether something is ctrl-c or cmd-c, say. On linux it's always ctrl. 4. I don't have to login to the apple store to get the software I need.…

hungry troll

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#617

Post by khedoros1 » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:36 PM UTC

ratsimihah wrote: post #520

sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

What does Linux give you that macOS doesn’t? I use both a Mac and an Arch Linux running i3/awesomewm, and to me macOS is like any Linux distro with a user-friendly desktop environment. I guess it doesn’t have an « official » package manager, but homebrew has most packages anyway?

Package management is core to the OS, not bolted on. I can change the desktop environment as I please, and potentially run different environments for different purposes, if I so choose. For any piece of software on the system, I can have a part in its development process, if I choose to. I like a non-GUI-centric system. I'm not limited to Apple's drivers, or Apple hardware in general (it's pretty and sleek, but I find some of the design choices grating).

I feel like Apple provides a computer and OS that are user-friendly to the general population. But it also seems like the whole culture is "No, don't do it that we. We've provided this method as the One True Way."

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#618

Post by justinclift » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

Myrmornis wrote: post #446

sreque wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a software developer, and I detest working on my mac laptop. At $lastjob I had a Linux desktop and it is, I believe, the most productive environment I have ever developed in. The job before, I had a windows desktop, and I prefer that to mac. You say you want to just "get things done expediently," but in my experience apple software is flat out inferior and OSX is the worst of the 3 major operating systems I have…

What apple software do you need to use? Sure, it's annoying not having the GNU command-line utilities. But `brew install coreutils` basically fixes that for me. I admit I don't work heavily with compiled languages on macOS so I can't comment on technical aspects of that. iTerm2 is not inferior to linux terminal emulators. The Apple laptops are quite obviously the best hardware experience out there. I mean obviously i…

> What apple software do you need to use?

Not sure if you're asking about "Apple" software (eg from Apple themselves), or OSX Software.

Personally, I miss Affinity Designer, and SnagIt. Both OSX applications I've paid (though not made by Apple), and which have not-as-good-to-use equivalents for Linux.

I still find myself switching back to OSX when I need to get things done using them. Rare now, but still happens.

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#619

Post by rangibaby » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:37 PM UTC

enraged_camel wrote: post #599

nqzero wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for laptops, dell seems to love 16:9 aspect ratio, which makes them inappropriate for development. for workstations, every dell i've seen uses custom cases that prevent upgrading the motherboard with an OTS component

>>for laptops, dell seems to love 16:9 aspect ratio, which makes them inappropriate for development. Inappropriate how, exactly?

They are too short for reading terminals or documents. Macs are 16:10 which is a little bit better

Re: Apple Plans to Use Its Own Chips in Macs from 2020, Replacing Intel

#620

Post by intrasight » Mon, Apr 02, 2018, 11:38 PM UTC

A non-event and long-forecasted IMHO. As others have pointed out, they've already done this twice before. I do like the idea that they can thus build a very secure platform. Might even make me buy a Mac again.